Grey Gardens- Great Story/Bad Musical — Page 3

oh, I didn't realize you posted this as well as pm'd me. as I said there, I just don't agree with you on any of that. and, if u had stated those things instead of what was originally said, I wouldn't have accused you of not listening.

the fact is, the musical does address her flaws. you just don't agree with how the writers presented that.

and the woman clearly has wants. she wants to hold on to as much of her crumbling world as possible. she wants to protect her daughter. she wants to be loved and adored. I just don't agree with you analysis of the piece.

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I've heard that complaint too. I don't agree with it.

I think Little Edie has the strongest dramatic need in the first act. It is really her story in the first act, while Big Edie/Ebersole is the star of the first act.

Little Edie wants to leave GG and every obstacle(internal as well as external) is in her way. Will she or won't she leave?

But Big Edie does not have an equal or greater dramatic need. Yet the star of the show is cast as Big Edie.

That were the imbalance is for me as an audience member.

If Big Edie's "want" is to keep her family together, she does very little by way of direct action to keep it so.

And direct observable action is what is what the Philip Barry style they are using is about.

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Updated On: 2/21/07 at 07:59 PM

No you didn't. I did.

It is the closest thing I could come up with as an overall dramatic act one want for Big Edie's character.

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Updated On: 2/21/07 at 08:19 PM

I think part of Ebersoles brilliance is to gloss over the flaws of the first act. Little Edies has wants,sure:

She wants to sing at the concert. Done, she gets it.
She wants to arrange the party. Done, she gets it.
She says she doen't want her accompanist to leave. He still leaves, she does nothing.
We guess she doesn't want her husband to leave. She can't or won't do anything anything about it - that we can directly oberve.

She DOES want to end her daughters engagement. THAT we do get to see. That is when she become interesting instead of mostly just entertaining.

But she has does not have an over all dramatic want that most central character in that style play have. Her daughter does, but she doesn't.

No strong dramatic want + no matching obstacles = no conflict.

no conflict = no drama.

My guess it that the authors would have had the entire piece be about Little Edie, if she didn't go from 20 to 50 something in one evening.

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Updated On: 2/21/07 at 08:37 PM

There's a great deal of conflict in Act 1.

The moment when Big Edie cries, "I'm your daughter! Why must you hate me so?" sends a chill through me every time.

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I think you are placing way too much on the whole star thing. what if this show hadn't been created with a star in mind? what about when the musical is produced regionally with no stars? that shouldn't be a factor at all.

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and again, you place emphasis on casting where that has nothing to do with the creation of the piece.

what if future productions cast 4 actors in those parts instead of 3? what if they decide to have 2 actors stay in their roles and age?

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Someone in another thread captured it very simply: "In Act I, she (Christine Ebersole) really played the 'all about me' card very well."

I don't think there is a "right" and "wrong" here about "whose" act it is, WalkOn. It's a matter of perception. In many ways, it's about both women, just as Act II is. I don't want to be redundant and simply cite everything already mentioned. I only used ONE example--the conflict between Big Edie and her father--because I think it illustrates an underlying issue that Major Bouvier expresses in "Marry Well."

Women were not educated so that they could have careers, contribute fully to society and support themselves. They were, largely, the vessel through which lineage was preserved. Big Edie exercized her "freedom" as best she could, but she was pretty much doomed. And Little Edie's options weren't much better. Clearly, the expectation is that she will marry into the Kennedy family and become "a wife with hobbies" just like Joe's mother and her "bridge."

Women were also not expected to speak their minds or challenge men, especially their fathers. (I know I am generalizing; there were, of course, exceptions to this rule, but this wasn't one of them.)

More than anything, Big Edie wants attention. She wants to be "noticed." She wants to be "celebrated." People who desperately need attention create conflict in every "relationship" they have...or attempt to have, I should say, because, for the most part, their relationships are unsuccessful.

I understand your reference to Barry, but that is, still, one dramatist's view. Even if his were the only "rules," I say rules are meant to be broken. One of the things I find most fascinating about GG is that it defies convention and takes risks. It may not be 100% successful, but at least it tries to say something in a fresh, new way...and let's face it: there is nothing NEW to be said, only NEW ways to say it. Shakespeare knew that!

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I would be surprised if future productions cast those roles with four actresses instead of three.

I think a huge part of the draw and success of this show is that one actress plays both Big Edie and Little Edie.

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Erin Davie herself told me that she was "shaky" in previews. (I'm not making this up or trying to be funny.)

A lot of opinions expressed about her on the board came early on in her tenure. I have seen tremendous growth in her performance since October. She took on a herculean task, in my opinion, and has done a lovely job.

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Well, I think she can be VERY proud of herself. Hers is not an easy role.

Gettelfinger came off as stiff and hard. But with Davie you see the damage to Little Edie already starting to develop.

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no conflict = no drama

I disagree with that statment. I think the show has plenty of conflict both internal and external. However, as I have stated before I think she show works more as a "character study", a glimpse into the interpersonal world of this family. IMO, it was never a linear play with an introduced conflict and resolution, it is more series of snapshots for the audience to ponder, project, and react to.

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Grey Gardens is my favorite show I have seen in a LONG time. I thought it was brilliant. It's beautiful and tragic and heartbreaking. I wish I could give a better review, but to say everything I loved about it would take hours. I adore it though.

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