Gypsy, the best musical of all time?- Page 2

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/26/06 at 11:55pm

It's hard for June to be so developed, since her role in the story is brief. Though she's an important character.

Herbie, I think could be developed slightly better.

But I think Louise makes one of the best character transformations in any Broadway musical. I think she's very developed too. Just because she does not have many songs, does not mean she's not developed, in my eyes.
Updated On: 5/26/06 at 11:55 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 12:01am

You people have obviously seen some crappy Herbie portrayals.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 12:01am

I'm not commenting on the fact that she doesn't have enough songs at all, I just always feel that Louise's transition from Act I into and through Act II is missing something.

I'm not saying she is a immensely flawed character, and i'm not saying she is extremely underdeveloped at all, just that I always feel that something small, but important is missing for her journey, that's all.

[broadway86]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 12:09am

I think Gypsy is a masterpiece. Moving, hilarious, and heartbreaking. The music is great, and - as others have said - it has one of the best books ever written for a musical. Possibly the best.

[oldfashionedboy]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 12:14pm

Gypsy is, in my opinion, the very greatest of all Broadway musicals.

It was the second show I ever saw, in 1959 at the age of twelve. It is largely responsible for my life long love of the theater.

I have seen all three Broadway revivals

Merman, Lansbury, Daly, and Peters were each spectacular in the role.

Proof of Gypsy's greatness is how memorable, in slightly different ways, each of these Roses and productions was.

The show has a great book and score, and one of the most complex and demanding leading roles in all of theater -- musical and non-musical.

And the greatest of all eleven o'clock numbers.

I look forward to the next Broadway revival.
Updated On: 5/27/06 at 12:14 PM

[jimnysf]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 1:19pm

"I look forward to the next Broadway revival."

I'm with you on that! It couldn't come soon enough to suit me.

To those who have never seen it, check out the film versions. While they are not as good as seeing it live, you will get an idea of it's greatness. The Bette Midler version is closer to the stage production but I don't like her in the role as much as I like Rosalind Russell and Natalie Wood is very good as Louise.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 4:25pm

It certainly belongs on the list of the greatest, which would include at least:
GYPSY
GUYS AND DOLLS
MY FAIR LADY

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 4:29pm

It has enjoyable music, a great story, and many moral values and themes. It's difinitive, if not the best.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 5:08pm

It certainly is a masterpiece, and has some incredible moments. I'd count it among the greatest musicals of all time, for sure. For me, however, the greatest musical of all-time is Cabaret.

[idinarocksmysocks!510]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 6:18pm

It's a good show but I don't think I'd call it the best musical of all time.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 6:47pm

I agree that GYPSY is the ultimate Broadway musical, having seen the original with Merman 5 times, the first revival with Angela Lansbury twice, the Tyne Daly revival 4 times, and the Peters revival once. It has a lot to do with the magnetism of the actress playing Mama Rose (Merman and Daly especially have tremendous "star presence"). Beyond that it is the combination of a great score, the drama, the comedy and the staging that set it apart from all other shows, in my opinion.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/27/06 at 7:29pm

The reason "Gypsy" is the greatest show of all times can be summed up in one word: confidence. This is a musical created by people who knew they were at the top of their game and how it shows. Opening the show with Merman walking through the audience pointing out her children's flaws as the performed was an introduction comparable to Gable's in "Gone With The Wind." It screamed "THIS IS THE BIGGEST F***ING STAR IN THE WORLD WALKING THROUGH THE MERE MORTALS, PLAYING OUT THE SHOW IN YOUR LAPS." I saw the show as a child and will never forget it.

The score was written by Jules Styne, whose shows, while not mega-whoppers, had run up an amazing 3,400 performances before Gypsy openend. The book and lyrics were by the guys who hadjust written "West Side Story", the star was the center of the Broadway universe for the past twenty years and the director was the Tommy Tune of his time.

It is seriously hard these days to understand what a huge star Merman was. She was much, much bigger than any star we have nowadays because back then, during her career, Broadway stars were the originators of most of the pop music hits (naything that didn't originate in a big band came from Broadway) so Memrman had been basically as big a star as Madonna in her time.

Put all of this confidence together - and then pour in the fact that they didn't make one mistake, not one bad choice (and they could have made so many in a story like this) and you have a supremely confident musical from the height of the Golden Age.

The first four notes of the overture basically say it all.

They had a dream.

And it will be swell....

Posted: 5/27/06 at 8:05pm

Gypsy is the best. First, the score. It's flawless. There has never been a show with a stronger score! Not only is there hit after hit, but every song perfectly advances the plot. And then it culminates in Rose's Turn-- an Aria that entertains, explains and revisits just about every theme and concept in the show.

Second it is entirely unique. There is no other story like it. It's wonderful to see it with someone who knows nothing of the plot and relive how delightful each turn is. Every development is a complete surprise, yet totally prepared for. A brilliant adaptation of the book, by the way! "Gyspy" by G.R. Lee is still in print and WELL worth the read!

Third, it tells us a hard truth that we need to hear. It's amazing how popular it is when it is not a "Story book" tale-- It's complex and grown up and blows my mind every time.

PLEASE give this show a chance-- see it whenever you can! Every time I've seen it, something new hits me. Even in a crappy production or a badly adapted movie, something will get me!

Gypsy is indeeed the greatest.

[jv92]

Posted: 5/28/06 at 10:47am

It's a great show, one of the bests. Well crafted, tuneful. Is it the best in my opinion? No. That's not say it isn't in the top 10 or even top 5. In my opinion, Chicago, Follies, Carousel and South Pacific are all better shows. Gypsy would come next.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 5/28/06 at 1:19pm

Thanks for all your input, guys. You've been really helpful. It's in discussions like this that people on this board REALLY shine. I appreciate your thoughts and will most certainly be checking out both movie versions of the show and any production put on by a reputable theatre in my area.

Thanks again.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/28/06 at 3:29pm

There is a pretty decent synopsis in the booklet that comes with the original cast cd. (It was written by George B. Dale who did the liner notes for all of the famous Columbia cast albums of the 1950s.)

The Overture as played on that recording is electrifying - and the tingle factor only increases as the recording goes along. (The Overture is badly played on the Angela LAnsbury recording - full of wrong notes.)

Still if you need further proof, get the script from your local library and play the songs as you come to them. It will give you a great idea of how the songs fit into the story.

[Buddy Kiss]

Posted: 5/28/06 at 6:15pm

Throughout the years, the format and the criteria for musical theatre has grown and changed so much that its very diificult, maybe even impossible, to determine which musical is the "best."

"Gypsy" is a musical that has a linear plot line and follows an Aristotilian (sp?!) structure- exposition, inciting incident, crisis, crisis, crisis, climax, denumount. Most of the songs are sung to other characters to communicate ideas or feelings. Other musicals that follow this format would include shows like South Pacific and My Fair Lady. Certainly, Gypsy is one of the best shows when it comes to this kind of structure.

However, there are other musicals out there that don't follow that format, intentionally. Bring in 'da Noise, Bring in 'da Funk lacks a specific plot and a development of individual characters but it still tells a story and communicates deep, internal thought and emotions.

Both musicals are so different, its really not fair to compare them.

[bschneid76]

Posted: 5/28/06 at 8:19pm

Allofmylife-- I just want to say thank you for the great post about Ethel Merman. I am a major fan of hers but never can find students my age (23) who appreciate her. I play recordings of her and people just say "I don't like her voice...she doesn't sound THAT good", of course I know they are comparing her to the "same" types voices we hear nowadays. At least her voice was distinctive and different. It was her own. The same goes for Carol Channing and Mary Martin whom many in my classes despise as well, but they'll hands down swear that Idena Mendzel (though a terrific singers in her own right) is the greatest singer since sliced bread. I am Teaching Assisting A Musical theatre course this summer and I want to enforce what tremendous talents the Musical World had and have lost, and try to send out some appreciation too!

Gyspy is one of my (if not the) favorite. If I were a woman, i'd love to play the role. But the next best thing I can try is directing it, and I did direct a short scene which I loved every moment of it. It is a terrific combination of song, dance and story. Plus Merman is the difinative, in my book. Though I got to see Bernadette Peters do it and rose to applaud immediately after Rose's Turn!! Hands down the greatest song in Musical Theatre!!!!

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/29/06 at 12:23am

The score of GYPSY is filled with great songs. Not a dud in the collection. Even the vaudeville numbers were purposely terrible.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/29/06 at 12:58am

I was SO lucky to not only have parents who loved musical theater - and worked in it actively all their lives - but to have proactive parents that took me across the continent to GO to Broadway. I can still remember seeing Merman onstage, even though I was so young. I think the memory was burned into my brain BECAUSE my parents were so excited that night. I can still remember how my mother held my hand during the overture and how enormous the theater seened to a small kid. And that overture. I--had--a--dream---Those four notes were played with such amazing vigor and are so arresting. The entire overture can be described with one word: thrilling. It is simply thrilling, right down to the slide whistle before "You'll be swell." GOD!

And when Merman entered, the applause stopped the show and I looked around to see what everyone was whispering about. So that was her, this chubby, dumpy woman who looked like every aunt who had ever tweaked my cheek while reeking of lilac perfume and muttering "Isn't he adooorable". Then she opens her mouth and sings.

Then I got it.

This dumpy lady could sing. Not as good as Julie Andrews, but people certainly liked her and applauded. Three songs she sang and each one got big, long applause.

Then she sang "I had a dream, a wonderful dream, baby,,..." Hey that's the music from the opening that the band played. Oh I guess that's the big song (age seven and I'm figuring song placement. Figures). Then came "You'll be swellll, you'll be great" and I married musical theater. That moment. That one moment. I got it. I understood EXACTLY what my folks were talking about.

I feel sad that many of you never saw the Merm before she became a tired comedy line in a Zuker Brothers film. She was fabulous. The show was amazing and Rose's Turn.....

To this day I am one of the legion that believe this is the greatest show. Why? Because it's the one seven course meal Broadway ever produced. It has comedy, tragedy, thrills, a score to die for, the biggest star in the world, the greatest eleven oclock number ever written and finally, it is so utterly satisfying. Every character gets EXACTLY what they deserved. You just can't say that about Cabaret, Chicago, Carousel, South Pacific, Company, Fiddler, or any of the others. All great shows, fantastic shows and I saw some of them.

But for me, and for so many more, there was only one show where I fell in love with musicals. And it was that night at The Imperial Theater.

God, I wish you'd been there with me...

[jimnysf]

Posted: 5/29/06 at 1:31am

"Gypsy" compared with "Bring in Da Noise, Bring in Da Funk"? That has to be a first. Anyway, it points out another reason why "Gypsy" is the greatest musical of all time! I don't think there are any classic tunes from "Bring in Da Noise".

[bjivie2]

Posted: 5/29/06 at 1:56am

It's just my opinion that a greatest of ALL TIME can never really be named. They have all been written in very different time periods in the development of musical theatre, so it's difficult to compare them. I would say Gypsy is OBVIOUSLY up there with West Side Story, Sweeney Todd, Cabaret and A Chorus Line. I would have the other ones listed (Fiddler, My Fair Lady, Guys and Dolls) just below those top five along with Show Boat, Oklahoma! and Company. Those are the greatest musicals of all time, imo.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/29/06 at 3:27pm

The difference is GYPSY has been revived many times throughout the years by pofessionals and community groups.

BRING IN DA NOISE was stunt. It will not likely be revived and I doubt any community group will be able to do it.

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 5/29/06 at 9:14pm

One of the things that tells you that "Gypsy" is one of the best musicals of all time is that in all of it's revivals over the years, no one has tried to "improve" it.

You get a director who has a staging idea, like Sam Mendes (I can appreciate his concept, but it just made the production look under-funded), but they leave the material as it is.

They don't even try adding one of the cut songs back into it. Like having June and Lousie sing "Mama's Talking Soft" in counterpoint to Rose's "Small World". Or giving Herbie "Nice She Ain't" to sing in the Chinese Restaurant after Rose leaves after "You'll Never Get Away From Me".

Whereas with a show like "Oklahoma," you can cut "It's A Scandal, It's An Outrage" because that show does feel like a long one...

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/30/06 at 12:14am

Well yes Act One of OKLAHOMA! id long (older musicals have long first acts and short second acts.) But "It's a Scandal!" is the only number for the Peddler and a comic one at that.

In GYPSY many people (including Jerome Robbins) think Little Lamb ought to be cut. It should NOT be cut. Aside from establishing Louise, alone and forgotten on her birthday, it is the one quiet moment in the middle of Act One where the audience can relax. Until then the action is pretty frantic, and especially in the original production it allowed a break from Merman. The scenes that follow would not be nearly as effective without that little pause.