HOW TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES by Marc Shaiman — Page 3

Podium and right you are. Like others have said - I do find it interesting that out of all the songs in the show, BOB picked that one - which is clearly a perfectly suited song FOR the character and situation.

If we are going to judge Marc's talents on one song, to be fair - let's judge Ebb on "Shut Up Gerald" or "We're Gonna Work It Out" from Woman of the Year.

This is not an argument that K&E aren't talented

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"No you're right. I just hate the entire style of TEH show"

Which is completely irrelevant to a discussion of its structure and creative merit.

My response is about the essay and about your assumptions of my views and opinions (and how you believe Ebb thinks).

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Oh B.O.B., B.O.B.!

"Believe me Fred Ebb is a far superior composer to Shaiman who has written, what?"


First, repeat after me: Fred Ebb is a lyricist. A not terribly good one but a lyricist.

To see what Shaiman has written, read the bio Rob so graciously put with the rebuttal. (Can I use that word- or will Ebb think it promotes seomthing best left in the bedroom?)


"This is a board to share opinions and I will share mine as much as I want"

You do not have opinions- you have one. Everything sucks and pollutes the world and only you Obi Wan AWannabe know what is true. You do not offer intelligent points of view- you use a sledge hammer of nasty words and poison pen vitriol to make Riedel look like Vanna White. Your limited points of view and epxressions are so FOX news- if Fox's tagline were "A Shrill and Mentally Unbalanced Look at Broadway."

Sharing implies you are giving something to others and take something in return- in reality you take away space and good will and promote egocentric hostility as if it were art. In your case, to loosely quote some "brilliant lyrics":

"Posting's what you do, while you're waiting to die."

Back to B.O.B.:

"To often on this board do we look at people's personality. I hate his comments on homosexuality and I applaud Shaiman for his open stand. But this doesn't change the fact that Ebb is a talented composer."

Backtrack much? and again, repeat after me: Fred Ebb is a lyricist. A not terribly good one but a lyricist.

"Sorry it doesn't agree with yours. I can see the insults being thrown right now from MrsB (or ar you Shaiman?) about Kander and Ebb's scores. "

No, I am not Shaiman. I wish I were. I wish had written songs and scores for movies and Broadway and had had a relationship that lasted 25 years (well technically that would be gross since I am only 31) but those of you who are not B.O.B. will get the point.

As for Marissa's win- get over it. She won. As did Bernadette for that misconceived revival of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN. If you would like to hear a rational point by point and not filled with nasty mal mots about why I did not think that revival worked, I'll be glad to post one later. I somehow doubt you are a Tony voter as one has to actually SEE shows in order to vote.

B.O.B.,repeat after me: Fred Ebb is a lyricist. A not terribly good one but a lyricist.

It is telling you used COOTIES as an attempted double attack on Mr. Shaiman and me. It reeks of immature pettiness and cattiness. That, in the show, is appropriate since the character is immature, petty and catty. Contrast that lyric with "Beedle dee beedle dee dee/Beedle dee beedle dee dee/Beedle dee beedle dee dee deedle dee dee." Wow, THAT is full of character.

And as a sidebar to the pleasant MisterMatt. I agree with you about outing EXCEPT in the case when the person being outed is someone actively discriminating against gay people who is gay themself.

Ebb's seriously antideluvian and homophobic comments (in a gay paper, ironically enough) make him fair game to have his sexuality addressed. Can anyone say Roy Cohn?

Well, I have to get back to studying. Taking the bar in the new year (no, B.O.B. - not the kind where one can get gin and BITTERS) and since I want to pass it on the first time, I have more stuff to make sure I know.

Happy Sunday to all- even B.O.B.- and B.O.B.- go outside for a while. Breathe. Actually see a show- or better yet, take the hours a day you spend writing poisons posts and do volunteer work or something constructive. How many hours of posting does it take to become a LEADING ACTOR on here anyway?

My opinions- which according to you I can have. So there!

No Matt, my point is and has always been, that "nice" is different than good. Hell, "nice" is different than nice, for that matter.

MrsB, I heart you.

"I agree with you about outing EXCEPT in the case when the person being outed is someone actively discriminating against gay people who is gay themself."

Which is EXACTLY what the whole point was of the "outing" era that MM dismisses with his quick brush of "hardcore gay fanaticism." It was a time when people were NOT aligning themselves with a community under seige, when many of its most famous members were happy to get rich off the backs of a community they were denying. Not that I expect MM to have any grasp of the history of gay politics.

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Cole Porter he ain't. Nor a Gershwin, nor a Berlin, nor a Kern, nor a Sondheim, nor a Rodgers, nor an Arlen, nor even a Kander, the list goes on.

I'm biting my tongue on this whole topic.

Yours for a better Broadway!

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:18 PM

hold the mutha^%&^$ phone.......



A.)I'm biting my tongue on this whole topic
**um.. NO.. if you were biting your tongue you would not have posted..


B.)Cole Porter he ain't. Nor a Gershwin, nor a Berlin, nor a Kern, nor a Sondheim, nor a Rodgers, nor an Arlen, nor even a Kander, the list goes on.
**who said he, or any other composer has to be??? and when one tries to be, you TRASH them for it.. you can't have it both ways./....

Oh, now, Bulldog, don't take it out on me that I didn't want to bill and coo with you in private!

BG2, word! Uh-HUH! I think announcing you're not doing something cancels out the not doing the thing you're saying you're not doing because in effect it points out what the thoughts you're allegedly not voicing are.

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Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:23 PM

Craig, He is who he is, and his level of talent is where it is. Perhaps it will grow, perhaps not.

Putting musical theatre writing in perspective he simply not near that group of folks. But who's to say?

I'm not a HS fan in the least but I'm not attacking him, just putting things in perspective.

Yours for a better Broadway!

Bulldog.

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:58 PM

Perspective of where Marc falls on theater "scale" that you are laying out has absolutely nothing to do with what he wrote. Just to get it back on topic.

Regardless of one's talents - I don't believe that Ebb's comments were necessary. And I believe Marc's response was intelligent and insightful.

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Could you at least clarify what you meant by that sentence? Many of us are on pins and needles after trying to decipher it and coming up with naught. Or are you really getting out of the kitchen?

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**claps**