HOW TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES by Marc Shaiman- Page 3

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:18pm

Um, best,
stylictically, Hairspray could NOT work witha sindheim-esque score.. one of teh greaest gifts a composer has is to blend perfectly into teh style and period of teh show and its characters.. teh song "cooties" is perfectly in tuen with WHO amber is and therefore, is well written and well constructed... it is not a book/scharacter number.. it is a song amber performs on a show.. therefore.. it is a perfect fit..

scuse me....

[Craig]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:30pm

Podium and right you are. Like others have said - I do find it interesting that out of all the songs in the show, BOB picked that one - which is clearly a perfectly suited song FOR the character and situation.

If we are going to judge Marc's talents on one song, to be fair - let's judge Ebb on "Shut Up Gerald" or "We're Gonna Work It Out" from Woman of the Year.

This is not an argument that K&E aren't talented

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:32pm

No you're right. I just hate the entire style of TEH show.

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:34pm

"No you're right. I just hate the entire style of TEH show"

Which is completely irrelevant to a discussion of its structure and creative merit.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:34pm

hypocrite. you bitch about how bway music is not more popular today and how in yesteryear, one could hear show tunes on any radio station, but when a show graps at a contemporary, popular music style of a time period and uses music that one coudl hera on any radio station then, you bitch.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:46pm

My response is about the essay and about your assumptions of my views and opinions (and how you believe Ebb thinks).

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:52pm

I just emitted The Sigh Heard 'round The World.

I vote MisterMatt for Honorary Von Tussle. (TRYING to keep the thread on point.)

[Mrs B]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:04pm

Oh B.O.B., B.O.B.!

"Believe me Fred Ebb is a far superior composer to Shaiman who has written, what?"


First, repeat after me: Fred Ebb is a lyricist. A not terribly good one but a lyricist.

To see what Shaiman has written, read the bio Rob so graciously put with the rebuttal. (Can I use that word- or will Ebb think it promotes seomthing best left in the bedroom?)


"This is a board to share opinions and I will share mine as much as I want"

You do not have opinions- you have one. Everything sucks and pollutes the world and only you Obi Wan AWannabe know what is true. You do not offer intelligent points of view- you use a sledge hammer of nasty words and poison pen vitriol to make Riedel look like Vanna White. Your limited points of view and epxressions are so FOX news- if Fox's tagline were "A Shrill and Mentally Unbalanced Look at Broadway."

Sharing implies you are giving something to others and take something in return- in reality you take away space and good will and promote egocentric hostility as if it were art. In your case, to loosely quote some "brilliant lyrics":

"Posting's what you do, while you're waiting to die."

Back to B.O.B.:

"To often on this board do we look at people's personality. I hate his comments on homosexuality and I applaud Shaiman for his open stand. But this doesn't change the fact that Ebb is a talented composer."

Backtrack much? and again, repeat after me: Fred Ebb is a lyricist. A not terribly good one but a lyricist.

"Sorry it doesn't agree with yours. I can see the insults being thrown right now from MrsB (or ar you Shaiman?) about Kander and Ebb's scores. "

No, I am not Shaiman. I wish I were. I wish had written songs and scores for movies and Broadway and had had a relationship that lasted 25 years (well technically that would be gross since I am only 31) but those of you who are not B.O.B. will get the point.

As for Marissa's win- get over it. She won. As did Bernadette for that misconceived revival of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN. If you would like to hear a rational point by point and not filled with nasty mal mots about why I did not think that revival worked, I'll be glad to post one later. I somehow doubt you are a Tony voter as one has to actually SEE shows in order to vote.

B.O.B.,repeat after me: Fred Ebb is a lyricist. A not terribly good one but a lyricist.

It is telling you used COOTIES as an attempted double attack on Mr. Shaiman and me. It reeks of immature pettiness and cattiness. That, in the show, is appropriate since the character is immature, petty and catty. Contrast that lyric with "Beedle dee beedle dee dee/Beedle dee beedle dee dee/Beedle dee beedle dee dee deedle dee dee." Wow, THAT is full of character.

And as a sidebar to the pleasant MisterMatt. I agree with you about outing EXCEPT in the case when the person being outed is someone actively discriminating against gay people who is gay themself.

Ebb's seriously antideluvian and homophobic comments (in a gay paper, ironically enough) make him fair game to have his sexuality addressed. Can anyone say Roy Cohn?

Well, I have to get back to studying. Taking the bar in the new year (no, B.O.B. - not the kind where one can get gin and BITTERS) and since I want to pass it on the first time, I have more stuff to make sure I know.

Happy Sunday to all- even B.O.B.- and B.O.B.- go outside for a while. Breathe. Actually see a show- or better yet, take the hours a day you spend writing poisons posts and do volunteer work or something constructive. How many hours of posting does it take to become a LEADING ACTOR on here anyway?

My opinions- which according to you I can have. So there!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:08pm

I agree with dvd. The quoted lyrics are a perfect expression of the character and the scene. Shaiman never tries to be Sondheim or Ebb or anyone else, so why try and compare their work? I saw Hairpsray two nights ago and loved it. The score and lyrics were completely compatible with the book. The show never dragged and wasn't total fluff. I have a lot more respect for it than former Best Musicals The Producers or Thoroughly Modern Millie.

Namo - I'm confused....I thought I was too "nice" to be a Von Tussle. You're contradicting yourself again.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:49pm

No Matt, my point is and has always been, that "nice" is different than good. Hell, "nice" is different than nice, for that matter.

MrsB, I heart you.

"I agree with you about outing EXCEPT in the case when the person being outed is someone actively discriminating against gay people who is gay themself."

Which is EXACTLY what the whole point was of the "outing" era that MM dismisses with his quick brush of "hardcore gay fanaticism." It was a time when people were NOT aligning themselves with a community under seige, when many of its most famous members were happy to get rich off the backs of a community they were denying. Not that I expect MM to have any grasp of the history of gay politics.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:03pm

Rob, I wanted everyone to know a bit more about Marc Shaiman's bio. Here's a link to some of Marc's accomplishment's aside from being a Tony Award Winning Composer/Lyricist. I hope everyone reads it. This man is multi-talented. He writes, arranges, orchestrates and plays a wicked piano in every genre, style, period and color of music. The guy is deep. He's given us so much music that we're not even aware of it all. Please take the time to go to the link provided.

http://shaiman.filmmusic.com/about_this_site.html

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:18pm

Cole Porter he ain't. Nor a Gershwin, nor a Berlin, nor a Kern, nor a Sondheim, nor a Rodgers, nor an Arlen, nor even a Kander, the list goes on.

I'm biting my tongue on this whole topic.

Yours for a better Broadway!



Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:18 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:19pm

Keep up the good biting.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:20pm

hold the mutha^%&^$ phone.......



A.)I'm biting my tongue on this whole topic
**um.. NO.. if you were biting your tongue you would not have posted..


B.)Cole Porter he ain't. Nor a Gershwin, nor a Berlin, nor a Kern, nor a Sondheim, nor a Rodgers, nor an Arlen, nor even a Kander, the list goes on.
**who said he, or any other composer has to be??? and when one tries to be, you TRASH them for it.. you can't have it both ways./....

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:22pm

Namo, you're not amusing, simply tedious. You should hit the "clear form" frequently. You might accomplish some postings with a point.

Bulldog.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:23pm

Oh, now, Bulldog, don't take it out on me that I didn't want to bill and coo with you in private!

BG2, word! Uh-HUH! I think announcing you're not doing something cancels out the not doing the thing you're saying you're not doing because in effect it points out what the thoughts you're allegedly not voicing are.

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:23 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:48pm

No Bulldog, you are right - he isn't Kern, Sondheim, Gershwin or any other fill in the blank.

He's Marc Shaiman. End of story. Apples and Oranges and to each their own.

Personally, I have been a "fan" (if you will) of Marc's work for well over 15 years. He is personally responsible for so many compositions, arrangements and orchestrations that I wouldn't know where to begin.

Aside from that - he's genuinely smart, witty and despite his success remains very grounded and "real".

And no.. I am not "defending" him because he wrote his rebuttal here at BWW.com....

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:48 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:58pm

Craig, He is who he is, and his level of talent is where it is. Perhaps it will grow, perhaps not.

Putting musical theatre writing in perspective he simply not near that group of folks. But who's to say?

I'm not a HS fan in the least but I'm not attacking him, just putting things in perspective.

Yours for a better Broadway!

Bulldog.

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 02:58 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 3:02pm

Hey Bulldog, how about a little re-read of that last post and make some corrections? As it stands it appears that you contradict yourself sometimes within the span of the same sentence. "I'm a HS fan in the least but I'm attacking him, just putting things in perspective." ????? I can't even GUESS what it is you meant to say there.

Yours for excellent articulation of points!

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 03:02 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 3:03pm

Perspective of where Marc falls on theater "scale" that you are laying out has absolutely nothing to do with what he wrote. Just to get it back on topic.

Regardless of one's talents - I don't believe that Ebb's comments were necessary. And I believe Marc's response was intelligent and insightful.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 3:06pm

Craig, I'm not continuing this discussion.

Cheers!

BB

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 3:11pm

Could you at least clarify what you meant by that sentence? Many of us are on pins and needles after trying to decipher it and coming up with naught. Or are you really getting out of the kitchen?

[Phantom2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:17pm

PodiumPerson- Thanks for educating the masses. Mr. Shaiman is a friggin' genius!

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:32pm

**claps**

[Phantom2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:34pm

I hope it's a standing ovation. Woohoo!!!!!!!!!