HOW TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES by Marc Shaiman- Page 2

[Jack42]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:04am

Personally I found his comments refreshing and insightful. Too often than not someone writing an article clips important context or elements of a quote and it changes the "tone".

Not to defend another Marc - but Kudisch suffered a HUGE backlash after an interview appeared where he made commentes about Alfred Drake.

Regardless - it was nice to read Marc's rebuttal to Weber's article. As for Kander and Ebb - He he hit in on the head, they are "Old School".

That doesn't make them bad or untalented. They just aren't contemporaries and I don't think anyone would ever be able to argue otherwise. I do consider the comment towards Marc and Scott tremendously uncalled for and lacked the "CLASS" that such veterans of Broadway should have. Especially the team responsible for CABARET and ZORBA. Thematically you'd think Ebb was a little LESS closed minded...

[macbeth]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:06am

Kander and Ebb should have plenty of money saved up from their previous successes, Chicago and Carabet among them. I definitely see the philosophy regarding not putting your own money into a show, but if you've reached a level of success and are truely confident in your material than that's a rule worth breaking.

Reading Ebb's comments though about Hairspray, and about Marc Shaiman, he's obviously out of touch with reality.

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:13am

Can someone direct me to Ebb's comments on Marc Shaiman, Scott Wittman and Hairspray? Thanks.

[dvd]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:16am

they just added a link to it (The Fred Ebb attack) in the article...last paragraph

[Rob]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:30am

http://www.metroweekly.com/arts_entertainment/stage.php?ak=521

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:44am

What does this even mean?

"Nobody has any right to intrude his private life on a mass audience," [Ebb] grumbles. "It is intrusive. "

I don't think a person can intrude his own private life on a mass audience. I think a mass audience can intrude on a person's private life. I would have previously assumed somebody like Ebb would understand what that word means.

So, basically, he thinks Marc and Scott are what one poster on the off-topic board considers to be "hard core gay fanatics?" Because THEY KISSED? He sounds very Arthur Laurents vs. Harvey Fierstein circa La Cage.

Updated On: 12/28/03 at 01:44 AM

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:45am

MrsB- Wow! Me? Fred Ebb!!?? What a compliment! Now lets see I do believe I said I didn't want to see an old WORN OUT movie made into a musical. None of the movies you mention fall under that category. Go ahead and support the Legally Blondes, Catch Me If You Can and Batman movies being made into musicals. Lord knows there are enough people on this board who would back you up.

PodiumPerson- what an insightful post.

FindingNamo- "You should always mention in your tirades about Hairspray that the GREATEST THEATRICAL MOMENT OF your LIFE was caused by somebody you were sitting behind once." - talking about reading way between the lines. Never said that in my LIFE.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 1:48am

Oh. Sorry. Was he sitting behind you? My bad.

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:02am

Thank you. I just read the article. Regarding that article, all I have to say is Mr. Ebb, sometimes it's better to keep your opinions to yourself. What an arrogant and mean spirited thing to say about people who're at the top of the game that you (Kander/Ebb) once played. Marc and Scott, PLEASE continue to be who you are and never feel you have to explain yourselves. You provide us with beautiful music, lyrics, ideas, etc. Keep them coming! You're carrying the torch of all past great composers/lyricists. You're not a new breed but you DO represent your generation's music, art, social issues and not the closeted bitterness of Mr. Ebb...........Mr. Ebb - SHAME ON YOU.

[Mrs B]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 2:31am

Back on the soapbox, guys.

Best (Beast?) of Broadway-

You wrote:

"MrsB- Wow! Me? Fred Ebb!!?? What a compliment!"

If you think being mistaken or compared to a marginally talented, self-laothing gnome is a complement- have at it.

It is ironic that a man who made a lot of money from gay themed shows (SPIDERWOMAN, CABARET) should be cowering in the closet, next to his Depends and Liza memorabilia. Is he afraid his mother will find out? Who can't tell he's gay? And in the theater, shouldn't it be a non-issue?

I wonder if he found COUPLING offensive (God knows I was offended- but by how BAD it was)? But it is only homosexuals showing they are capable of love and not just sex terrifies Ebb. Molind and Valentin can kiss for "art" (and his bank account) but men who kiss in reality and are not ashamed threaten a man who makes Strom Thurmond look enlightened.

And it cracks me up Ebb praised Terrence McNally for "classy work" when most hetero Joe and Joan Average would consider CORPUS CHRSTIE scariligous. What's sacreligous to me is the man who helped create LIZA MINELLI is afraid to acknowledge who he is- no wonder his lyrics are pedestrian and lack heart and depth.

You decry HAIRSPRAY for being commercial- I guess that does not apply to bringing in tv stars (a la the Weisslers) to keep CABARET going.

You trash shows that are not written yet- doubtless because you will never be in them. I don't find the idea of LEGALLY BLONDE an exciting one but who knows what it might turn out to be? And maybe it will inspire someone to perform or write or follow a dream. I LOVED CATS when I was in jr. high and it came out (I know! I know!) but it opened the door to Broadway for me- it made me want to see more and learn. You think they are lousy ideas- then don't see them. Put your ticket money toward therapy or for an operation to remove your head from a part of you lower anatomy. That is if you ever even GO to shows- something tells me you are part of the bitteratti- people who write first hand accounts of things they have never seen.

And as for you B.O.B.- when Bacall was in WOMAN OF THE YEAR (another hacky piece of Shlock from Ebb) she was known as BOB- bitch of broadway. I think we should pass the moniker BOB to you- only for Bitter on Boards.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 8:41am

now THAT desreves a standing ovation!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:04am

She had me at

"Best" of Broadway

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:34am

Namo - Don't speak for me. I never thought Scott and Marc were hard core gay fanatics. But I have known a few.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:35am

I was trying to protect your confidentiality! But Ebb IS arguing from the same line of logic as you.

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:44am

This is a board to share opinions and I will share mine as much as I want. Believe me Fred Ebb is a far superior composer to Shaiman who has written, what?- one Broadway musical. Go ahead and compare Cabaret to Hairspray. I would love to see that. To often on this board do we look at people's personality. I hate his comments on homosexuality and I applaud Shaiman for his open stand. But this doesn't change the fact that Ebb is a talented composer. You all have your opinion about Shaiman and I have mine. Sorry it doesn't agree with yours. I can see the insults being thrown right now from MrsB (or ar you Shaiman?) about Kander and Ebb's scores.
As for some of the casting in Cabaret and Chicago I find it embrassing to the Broadway community, but not as embarassing as giving a Tony Award to the talentless Marissa Jaret Winokur who couldn't hold a tune or a character for longer than two seconds.

Mrs.B you obviously love Hairspray with a passion. I hate it with a passion and refuse to support the shows that are attempting to follow in it's footsteps. I leave you with these brilliant lyrics:

"In science class
She's like a walking show-and-tell
Her pet skunk ran away
'Cause it couldn't take the smell
She's got cooties"

Oh that we could all write like this.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:46am

there is one thing in disagreeing on something, bitchofbroadway, however, you do do not disagree.. you go waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy out there and spend NO time doing anything but trashing ONE show.. so obviuosly you must have SOME motive other than not liking the show or its creators and stars....

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:49am

Not even close. The "hard core gay fanatics" I was referring to are those who believe that it is every gay man's obligation to come out. Like those who "outed" people in the late 80s and early 90s, claiming it was their resposibility to expose the private lives of celebrities or public figures. I simply believe it is a personal choice. If two gay men kiss on television, I think it's a beautiful expression of love.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:52am

Okay, hi, this thread isn't about you. It's about Marc's essay, and reactionary queens. Oh, wait.

[dvd]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:54am

BOB,

those lyrics are sung by an insanely petulant teenage girl trying to embarass someone else within the context of a 'self-penned' simple-minded pop song called "COOTIES"! You ought to choose your battles a little more carefully!

And Mr. Shaiman never once dishes Fred Ebb's work nor compares his work to theirs...once again, choose your battles with more precision, you might then actually make a point!

Off to dance the "Cooties" dance

David Updated On: 12/28/03 at 11:54 AM

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:57am

Who said that Shaiman did? Mrs.B does.

Have fun dancing to Cooties. I hope you have loads of fun. Updated On: 12/28/03 at 11:57 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 11:58am

Sounds like louds of fun to me, whatever that is.

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:01pm

?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:07pm

Oh, you corrected it. Good catch.

Now I have that song "Cooties" going through my head, like an early '60s pop song. Which shows you how accurate they were while working in the vernacular.

[Craig]

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:14pm

What I find amusing is B.O.B's comparison and then quoting lyrics to Cooties proving his point. Has no one bothered to tell B.O.B that Marc Shaiman writes the MUSIC, not the lyrics?

Posted: 12/28/03 at 12:15pm

Shaiman and Wittman both wrote the lyrics.