#51
Posted: 6/11/04 at 1:02pm
or maybe not.
Plince! Plince! Nein! T-Rex!!
Is THE PRODUCERS the most overated musical ever? — Page 3
#52
Posted: 6/11/04 at 1:37pm
"Phantom is MELODRAMATIC! I mean, that's kind of the point, isn't it? This isn't an insult - it's written to be a Broadway opera about an opera! Its very form is melodramatic!"
"It's a Broadway opera about an opera house."
It's a musical about a stalking kidnapping murderer in an opera house that is somehow seen as romantic and sympathetic.
"It's a Broadway opera about an opera house."
It's a musical about a stalking kidnapping murderer in an opera house that is somehow seen as romantic and sympathetic.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#53
Posted: 6/11/04 at 1:46pm
Is it the most overrated musical - No.
Should it have won all the Tonys that it did - No. The score for the most part is very banal and forgetable.
Having seen it once, do I need to see it again - No.
Should it have won all the Tonys that it did - No. The score for the most part is very banal and forgetable.
Having seen it once, do I need to see it again - No.
A Healthy NO C-A-R-B Diet for 2004
NO C-heney
NO A-shcroft
NO R-umsfeld
NO B-ush
and "Absolutely NO RICE!"
#54
Posted: 6/11/04 at 1:54pm
One thing I'd like to point out. When naming something the best score, it should not be judged on whether or not it has the 'best' music and lyrics. People forget that a score is one (major) component of a musical. What should be judged best score is the show with music and lyrics that are not only enjoyable, but which also tell the story in the most appropriate way. I do not think the musical vocabulary employed by Steven Schwartz aided in telling the story of WICKED. No matter how many clever words you make up, 70's-80's pop/folk/rock fusion just does not seem appropriate to the story. However, AVE. Q used the appropriate sounds and ideas to further the story and make the score and book seamless. On those merits alone, it deserved best score.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#55
Posted: 6/11/04 at 2:16pm
MisterMatt: fair enough :)
Plince! Plince! Nein! T-Rex!!
#56
Posted: 6/11/04 at 2:30pm
in your somewhat less that humble opinion i supose they didnt, secret-soul. but i think that they captured a classic old-fashioned broadway style and added some (well, a lot) of new flavor and what resulted was a first-class show that deserves every bit of praise it gets, with or without the great duo of nathan and matthew. mel brooks himself said that it was a "love letter to broadway", what kind of cynical stiff do you have to be to not love that?
#57
Posted: 6/11/04 at 3:06pm
"Who do you have to f*** in this town...?"
Not first-class. First crass. I don't mind curse words, but it just didn't fit in well with the "classic" Broadway style that the show tried to imitate. Nor was there anything in the show that really warranted the use of that kind of language. I didn't feel the show mixed the old-fashioned with the new too well. If people love it and praise it, that's great. For me, it is an ok comedy with an ok book and an ok score. I found Urinetown to be much wittier and original while still giving nods to Broadway, but constructed much more intelligently. That, to me, showed true class.
Not first-class. First crass. I don't mind curse words, but it just didn't fit in well with the "classic" Broadway style that the show tried to imitate. Nor was there anything in the show that really warranted the use of that kind of language. I didn't feel the show mixed the old-fashioned with the new too well. If people love it and praise it, that's great. For me, it is an ok comedy with an ok book and an ok score. I found Urinetown to be much wittier and original while still giving nods to Broadway, but constructed much more intelligently. That, to me, showed true class.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#58
Posted: 6/11/04 at 3:12pm
I, for one, never really saw the appeal that THE PRODUCERS had. I saw it once and laughed at some parts. It was "okay". Nothing I would consider brilliant and I definately would never say that it reinvented modern Musical Theatre. Like Mr. Matt, I think URINETOWN was a much better show. It was 100% completely original and not afraid of anything. Plus, it's the only time I've ever laughed so hard at a musical or play that my sides were actually hurting.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#59
Posted: 6/11/04 at 3:14pm
everyone feels differently about things like cursing, even on broadway. personally, i cracked up when i heard brad oscar say that line. furthermore, i think that producers is wonderfully constructed. buts thats just me.
any show which gets deemed "the best musical ever" is going to have its detractors. some people think gypsy is the best, some think it is a chorus line, some think its fiddler, some of us youngin's may even think its rent (i have my favorites but i dont single any show out as being "the best"). but for each of the shows i mentioned, you'll find at least someone (and sometimes a lot of someone's) who'll say it is a piece of crap.
any show which gets deemed "the best musical ever" is going to have its detractors. some people think gypsy is the best, some think it is a chorus line, some think its fiddler, some of us youngin's may even think its rent (i have my favorites but i dont single any show out as being "the best"). but for each of the shows i mentioned, you'll find at least someone (and sometimes a lot of someone's) who'll say it is a piece of crap.
#60
Posted: 6/11/04 at 3:20pm
'It was 100% completely original'
I would argue that it's derivative of Mark Blitzstein...by design.
I would argue that it's derivative of Mark Blitzstein...by design.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#61
Posted: 6/11/04 at 3:30pm
You can't even compare Urinetown to The Producers because The Producers can't even come close to how original and funny Urinetown was.
And hang on, when did you win the discus?
#62
Posted: 6/11/04 at 4:24pm
nystateomind04, my VERY humble opinion was in response to the way you stated yours, that's all. I also *humbly* agree that Urinetown is a better example of originality. On the other hand, Producers DOES present itself as a Broadway Musical while Urinetown was kind of like the anti-musical. IE: let's break out in song BECAUSE MUSICAL THEATRE DEEMS IT APPROPRIATE AT THIS VERY MOMENT. BUTTTTTTT, Urinetown has succeeded in creating a new kind of musical and is highly praiseworthy for it's accomplishments. There really was no need for the explitives used in the Producers.
Now, if we wanna talk about a certain person's idea of melodrama *cough coughbluewizardcough...ahem* THE PRODUCERS is a broadway musical about a broadway musical.
Now, if we wanna talk about a certain person's idea of melodrama *cough coughbluewizardcough...ahem* THE PRODUCERS is a broadway musical about a broadway musical.
Plince! Plince! Nein! T-Rex!!
#63
Posted: 6/11/04 at 5:13pm
LOL - I got that.
What I meant originally was, Phantom is a melodrama because of its grand, operatic nature - Christine's pining, the two men fighting for her love, the bind the Phantom puts her in at the end, etc. - all very melodramatic and seeming to stem from the operatic form. Since it's using the sung-through format of opera (ALW was still in his habit of writing sung-through musicals), it's like an opera about opera.
I'm seeing Urinetown next week - very excited.
What I meant originally was, Phantom is a melodrama because of its grand, operatic nature - Christine's pining, the two men fighting for her love, the bind the Phantom puts her in at the end, etc. - all very melodramatic and seeming to stem from the operatic form. Since it's using the sung-through format of opera (ALW was still in his habit of writing sung-through musicals), it's like an opera about opera.
I'm seeing Urinetown next week - very excited.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
Updated On: 6/11/04 at 05:13 PM
#64
Posted: 6/11/04 at 5:22pm
ive never seen urinetown- from what i hear, thats my loss. and as far as i remember, the producers didnt steal any tonys from it, that was millie. didnt this argument begin with people saying that it didnt deserve 12 tonys?
furthermore secret-soul, what i said what that "perhaps the producers really deserved the twelve awards they won", and i dont see what is wrong with the way that is stated. YOU responded by saying "or maybe not" and there-in lies my accusation. hope we're clear. and as i previously and (if i do say so, myself) *humbly* posted, its all opinion, so if you think that the producers isnt a good as its cracked up to be, that wont change my mind a bit. i will, however, note your praise of urinetown and see it if i ever get the chance.
furthermore secret-soul, what i said what that "perhaps the producers really deserved the twelve awards they won", and i dont see what is wrong with the way that is stated. YOU responded by saying "or maybe not" and there-in lies my accusation. hope we're clear. and as i previously and (if i do say so, myself) *humbly* posted, its all opinion, so if you think that the producers isnt a good as its cracked up to be, that wont change my mind a bit. i will, however, note your praise of urinetown and see it if i ever get the chance.
#65
Posted: 6/11/04 at 5:49pm
Urinetown is a must see, it really is brilliant. I don't know how the touring company is because my experience is based only on the Broadway version but still, the show is stellar no matter what.
And hang on, when did you win the discus?
#66
Posted: 6/11/04 at 5:51pm
"I would argue that it's derivative of Mark Blitzstein...by design."
Do you mean Cradle Will Rock? Urinetown has in common only that it's plot was somewhat of a political statement concerning the "common man", but that was not unique to Blitzstein. Nor was the use of minimal staging. Blitzstein didn't spoof other shows or write camp comedy. Urinetown wasn't specifically derivative of anything.
I compared Urinetown to The Producers because of Mel Brooks' statement of The Producers being a "love letter" to Broadway, when I think Urinetown really is closer to be that letter than The Producers.
PS - And for anyone who has not seen the Parsons Dance Company - RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN to the Joyce Theatre!!!! They are doing Caught (which has to be seen to be believed) and The Envelope (brilliant and funny) as well as many other works. The first time anyone sees Caught (photo) it is always special. It is BREATHTAKING.
Parsons Dance
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Updated On: 6/11/04 at 05:51 PM
#67
Posted: 6/11/04 at 6:07pm
I would have to say that "The Full Monty" is one of the most overlooked shows in Broadway's recent history... because it received no Tonys, the entire show was passed over. Patrick Wilson gave a performance to remember, and yes, the score to the FM is much better than the Producers..
And if she'll say, "My darling, I'm yours!" I'll throw away my striped tie and my best pressed tweed, all I really need is the girl...
#68
Posted: 6/11/04 at 8:02pm
Did it deserve all the hoopla ? No. Was it enjoyable ? Yes but this show was deemed to be the 2 nd coming of the messiah. With all the reviews, after Lane & Broderick left, the box office dropped dramatically. What does that say ?
Poster Emeritus
#69
Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:12am
that the stars were bringing in money, and when they left people weren't as interested. mainstreme audience's are into seeing stars, its not brain surgery- but it doesnt mean its a lesser show. how many times do people here complain that such audience's overlook good shows because of their lack of star-power? the same holds true here, to a slightly lesser degree. this time audiences were very interested until the stars left- then the box office slowed down a bit, but the show is not and to my knowlege, never was struggling. and like i said, brad and steven were great, furthermore it is now a huge part of theater history. hell, the producers is a cellebration of all things broadway.
i honestly think that people here have a problem with hits. just hits. you dont here people detract from shows that arent doing so well, then you here "you've got to see this show! take a chance on off-broadway!" or something like that, but when a show is successful it gets an enormous backlash. need i say it- wicked, and that may be partly due to its flaws, but now people are even going against avenue q, and why? because it was successful, whereas people barley ever lashed out against it before it was the "best musical" of the 2004 season.
i honestly think that people here have a problem with hits. just hits. you dont here people detract from shows that arent doing so well, then you here "you've got to see this show! take a chance on off-broadway!" or something like that, but when a show is successful it gets an enormous backlash. need i say it- wicked, and that may be partly due to its flaws, but now people are even going against avenue q, and why? because it was successful, whereas people barley ever lashed out against it before it was the "best musical" of the 2004 season.
#70
Posted: 6/14/04 at 10:05am
Without reading anyone else. No, it's not. And it came just in time.
#71
Posted: 6/14/04 at 10:35am
Matt,
Although it's not unique to Blitzstein, he was still the major composing influence on Mark Hollmann (much more than Brech/Weill).
Although it's not unique to Blitzstein, he was still the major composing influence on Mark Hollmann (much more than Brech/Weill).
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#72
Posted: 6/14/04 at 2:10pm
"Without reading anyone else. No, it's not. And it came just in time. "
my point exactly.
my point exactly.
#73
Posted: 6/14/04 at 2:23pm
You can say its a hit thing but my problems comes where anything is hyped up to the point where the production cannot possibly live up to the expectations that causes.
And hang on, when did you win the discus?
#74
Posted: 6/14/04 at 2:26pm
i can see how that would bother you. but in my case the show lived up to the hype. and i saw it after the tonys and without nathan and matthew.
oh well, i love it, but its different for everyone.
oh well, i love it, but its different for everyone.
#75
Posted: 6/14/04 at 2:54pm
I can honestly say when I got the recording I enjoyed it but I wasn't all that into the show until I saw it! I mean it's not like I think it's the most amazing piece of theater to have ever gracec the stage, but it was enjoyable, funny, and I found myself smiling throughout it. The Tony's are the Tony's and that season is over and done with, so let's move on, there's nothing we can do about it now.
And by the way, theatreguy, Best Musical doesn't (always) mean Most Popular Musical! i know people will probably take this to a tanget, but take it as you will.
And by the way, theatreguy, Best Musical doesn't (always) mean Most Popular Musical! i know people will probably take this to a tanget, but take it as you will.
"Did you know that if you take the first two vowels in Olive and rearrange them it spells I-Love?"-Spelling Bee
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Updated On: 6/14/04 at 02:54 PM
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