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Is There A Missing "Wicked" Witch?

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#1

Is There A Missing "Wicked" Witch?

Posted: 5/18/06 at 7:58pm

Hello. I was listening to the "Wicked" cast recording. We all know that the Witch of the North is "Glinda", the Wicked Witch of the West is "Elphaba" and the Wicked Witch of the East is "Nessarose." Just out of curiousity, is there a Witch of the South? I mean, the wicked ones are a pair, is there another Good Witch out there, a compatriot of Glinda? Hmmm? from Roman in Austin, Texas
"Noel [Coward] and I were in Paris once. Adjoining rooms, of course. One night, I felt mischievous, so I knocked on Noel's door, and he asked, 'Who is it?' I lowered my voice and said 'Hotel detective. Have you got a gentleman in your room?' He answered, 'Just a minute, I'll ask him.'" (Beatrice Lillie)
#2

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/18/06 at 8:00pm

well actually glinda in the original books is the witch of the south, theres a totally different witch of the north who does the whole munchkinland bit. so mgm rolled the good ones into one person and wicked does too
"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel
#4

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/18/06 at 8:02pm

Pack after pack of cigarettes, we warned her they'd harm her, she wouldn't listen, they killed her, shes dead. They killed her. She diiiiied.
#5

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/18/06 at 8:03pm

Yes, there is a missing witch from the Baum Oz books.

Glinda was the Witch of the South in the original book. There was a second "kindly old lady" that was the Good Witch of the North. She is not named in the book. They are not sisters, and neither are the witches of the East and West.

All of these changes came from the MGM film. They consolidated the Witch of the North (who sends Dorothy on her journey down the yellow brick road) and Glinda the Witch of the South (who doesn't enter the story until after the Wizard leaves in his balloon) into one character to beef up the part for Billie Burke. Making the two bad witches sisters was also an invention for the MGM movie.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 5/18/06 at 08:03 PM

#7

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/18/06 at 8:47pm

Thank you, thank you, must pass on Caroline love. I'm still so mad I missed it, I don't even like thinking about it re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?
#8

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/18/06 at 9:23pm

If I recall correctly, it's been quite a while since I read Maguire's novel, but the West, East, etc titles were given through the Philosophy Club or something.

Someone please clear this up.
"You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."
To Kill A Mockingbird
#9

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 12:33am

Well, Wickedgeek, the titles were actually given to them by Madame Morrible because she wanted Nessa, Galinda, and Elphaba to become three Adepts to her master (strongly hinted to be the Wizard). Elphaba rejected the offer and for the rest of her life believed she was under a spell of Morrible's. In the end, Elphaba did indeed become the Adept (witch) of the west, Nessa of the East, and Glinda of the North.
#10

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 12:37am

everyone would start complaining that wicked was screwing more around with plots. can anyone just ever leave well enough alone?
#11

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 2:11am

CORRECTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OKay, Glinda has ALWAYS been the Witch of The North...even in the original book because even in on the Wizard of Oz map Quadling Country is in the NORTH where Glinda lived.

YES, there was another good witch and she was from the SOUTH and she met Dorothy when she landed in OZ.

Glinda has ALWAYS resided in the North...NEVER the South.

I grew up reading the OZ Books and I every single book because I use to be obsessed with the Land of OZ. I even own the special edition copies of the books...and thats really crazy that I'm telling you this.

But yeah, There was a good witch and she was from The South but she was not GLINDA. The only musical that even had all four witches was THE WIZ.

Facebook...ME !!!
#12

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 2:13am

Many of us would probably agree the Wicked Witch of the South is Karhrine Harris. (But I may be wrong or it may be just my Wicked opinion).
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=972787#3631451 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=963561#3533883 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955158#3440952 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954269#3427915 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955012#3441622 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954344#3428699
#13

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 3:33am

Unmasked05---I have no idea what map you're looking at, but it's not from any of the Oz books by Baum. The Quadling Country (where Glinda rules) was ALWAYS in the South in these books.


Oz Map
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#16

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 7:10am

Yeah, until I read the Oz books, I always wondered what happened to the Witch of the South.

Yeah, the last thing we need is another one of those cturtle...
The course of true love never did run smooth.
#17

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 8:16am

Yes, the readers and viewers of WICKED always need to remember that the mythology that Macguire works with is as much or more a result of the MGM film as it is the original L. Frank Baum books. Just look at Denslow's illustrations and Baum's description of the WWW, or how differently Glinda is presented throughout the series.

WICKED is like a great jazz riff on a classic song. It's just a riff, but the song remains the classic.
#18

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 10:08am

cturtle -- "oh, dreck ... another NORTH AND SOUTH war ..."

LOL! Yes, but this one thankfully doesn't star Patrick Swayze and Kirstie Alley.

philcrosby--"It's just a riff, but the song remains the classic."

Nicely put.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#19

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 11:03am

Thanks, best12bars.

(From an avid Baum/OZ fan, who thinks the film RETURN TO OZ is the best realization of the books on screen.)
#21

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 2:34pm

Old Mombi pops up in book #2, "The Marvelous Land of Oz." She was not an "official" witch, but secretly practiced sorcery and black magic.

Wikipedia.org has a pretty good explanation of her character (click the link below).

For "Return to Oz" (the Disney film), they merged books #2 and #3 (Ozma of Oz) together for the basic plot. In doing this, they combined two villainous characters: Mombi (the hag from book #2) and Princess Languidere (the vain, beautiful head-swapper) of Ev. That's how they got "Princess Mombi" for that film.

There are instances of plot points from "The Marvelous Land of Oz" in "Wicked" when they talk about Dr. Nikidik and his Magic Powder of Life (at Shiz). This is the same powder that Mombi will eventually use to bring Jack Pumpkinhead and the Sawhorse to life.

(Yes, I'm an Oz Geek. Have been, all my life. Guilty, as charged.)
Mombi Info on Wikipedia
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#22

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 2:58pm

12bars, I am an Oz geek too.

I always found it fascinating that "Marvelous Land of Oz" had its origins as a stage show written by Baum, with the transformation of the boy Pip into the beautiful Ozma, a natural because Pip was written as a trouser role.

And to get this back on track for the WICKED geeks re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch? , I think it's fun that Macguire used Baum's initials to name his protagonist.

Updated On: 5/19/06 at 02:58 PM

#24

re: Is There A Missing 'Wicked' Witch?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 4:22pm

*shakes philcrosby's hand*

If you're familiar with the various plots and characters from all the Baum Oz books, it makes "Wicked" (especially the novel) THAT much more enjoyable and meaningful.

mejusthavingfun---Thanks so much for sharing that!

I can't decide whether I like it or not... but I definitely appreciate what went into it. I love the shots of the tiger (is he the Hungry Tiger?) chained in the castle.

It looks a bit like Buffy the Munchkin Slayer though, which I think is its biggest drawback. A hip, cool, sexy, tweener drama set in Oz? At least on "face value" that's what it appears to be from those shots. But I can't "see" the script, so I don't really know.

I hope that someday we'll see a "Lord of the Rings" scale film version of these books, with all the great battles, the whimsy, the adventure, the darkness and the humor... that's my fantasy at least.

I should quit sniffing poppies and wake up.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

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