Jerry Herman Would LOVE a Bette Midler "Dolly"- Page 2

[musicman_bwayfan]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 4:03am

Stage Door Sally:

Terrence Mann is 62 and Gary Beach is 65. Nathan is the youngest of the three you mentioned...he's 57. Terrence has the grey hair too...so I'm not quite sure why you are saying that he is too young.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 5:49am

I thought Mann was younger. Don't know why. Thanks for pointing that out. I think he'd be a good Horace.

[jv92]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 11:52am

The problem is, Herman won't allow any staging on Broadway other than "Gower's original", which is sad, and from what I've heard, was the dealbreaker for LuPone.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 11:57am

^ All the better. Staging so iconic no one can complain (other than the usual naysayers who want a "new vision"), a legendary star in the lead, a musical for the ages...

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 12:12pm

I don't doubt that Patti LuPone would sing the hell out of the score, but is she charming enough for the part? I really think the lack of charm was as much the problem with Streisand as the lack of age. (Streisand is thrilling, but not particularly charming in my book.)

Shirley Booth, Ruth Gordon and Carol Channing could "play" intrusive and "exasperating", but at heart they were utterly lovable.

I'm not sure the same is true of LuPone. Don't get me wrong: I "love" her because of her talent, but that's different than finding her charming.

(Before someone else asks, I'll do it: was Merman ever charming? She was when I saw her. Not in the sense that Channing is, but Merman made up for what she lacked in warmth with one of the great instruments of the 20th century and impeccable comic timing.)

Updated On: 7/12/13 at 12:12 PM

[DEClarke]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 3:01pm

I love this idea! I hope Bette does it!

[alterego]

Posted: 7/13/13 at 7:55am

What does Dollypop have to say about this? Dollypop?

[lovebwy]

Posted: 7/13/13 at 11:03am

Of course. Jerry Herman would love anything that would fill his coffers.

[jv92]

Posted: 7/13/13 at 12:42pm

Its funny. The prickly/"reclusive" Sondheim has become a New York theater icon and beloved by many in the community, and is attempting to write new stuff, and sunny Jerry Herman is now a semi-recluse living off his DOLLY and MAME royalties. Does anyone else find that funny?

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/13/13 at 1:01pm

I'm not sure that's exactly true Jv92 -- I would say the vast majority of Sondheim's energy these days is also in supervising/participating/attending the many revivals of his productions.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 7/13/13 at 2:16pm

I also think Jerry Herman's output post-La Cage has been consistently poorly received by the tastemakers/critics, telling him basically that his time has passed. The assessment of Sondheim's work has continued to rise from year to year, with movie adaptions and revivals continuing at an accelerating pace until now. Who would blame Jerry for basically saying to the theater world "who needs 'em"?

[logan2]

Posted: 7/14/13 at 11:30pm

Jerry Herman also said he would LOVE a Bette Midler Mame, and it was a go for a tv version in the 90s. Then Herman freaked out because Midler and James Lapine held a reading without him. He said Bette would no longer be allowed to play the lead. So the whole project was called off. This information came from the book But Darling, I'm Your Auntie Mame.

I think LuPone definitely has the charm to play Dolly, GavestonPS.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 7/14/13 at 11:44pm

I recall being charmed by Lupone (listen to her "Sleepy Man" and not be charmed, I dare you). And I recall her making me laugh many times.

What I'm having difficulty recalling is her being charming and making me laugh at the same time.

At least not without a tuba.




Updated On: 7/14/13 at 11:44 PM

[Cyndawg]

Posted: 7/15/13 at 12:39am

I would love to see this happen!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/15/13 at 4:29am

I've never met the man, but Jerry Herman and I have a mutual friend who tells me he has spent much of the past 3 decades buying, renovating and selling houses in Palm Springs and Los Angeles. The friend says he may have made more from real estate during the period than from royalties.

But he played dates with JERRY'S GIRLS for years. He didn't turn into Norma Desmond.

*****

Logan2, the "charm" I'm talking about comes from an essentially sweet and sunny nature. On Friday, I laughed until I couldn't breathe listening to Lupone talk to Seth Rudetsky about how much she hates the score to EVITA, but that's NOT the sort of "charm" that makes Dolly Levi welcome in everybody's home.

Just to be clear, LuPone is classically trained and one of the best actors in musical theater. She was imo the best thing in WORKING and she didn't even have her own number!

But being skilled doesn't automatically make one "right" for every role.

Updated On: 7/15/13 at 04:29 AM

[logan2]

Posted: 7/15/13 at 5:36am

I agree that being skilled doesn't make one right for every role. You think she doesn't have the right charm for Dolly, I think she does. Just a difference of opinion.

Last Friday was July 12th, where did you see Patti and Seth? Please tell us more. I'm still wanting someone to tell me what she said about Sherie Rene Scott in London. I would love it if you relayed some of Patti's stories from the show you attended.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/15/13 at 6:21am

I didn't see Patti and Seth. I heard them on Sirius Talk Radio. It was an old episode of SETH SPEAKS, from January, I believe.

Yes, we can agree to disagree, but I'm willing to wager that if Patti LuPone barged into your life and started making decisions for you, you'd run the other way as fast as you can. Oh, you'd sit still for a song or two, but then you'd run.

I don't mean she isn't appealing in many other ways, just not in the way you'd hire in a matchmaker/woman-of-all-trades.

[PTOPhan]

Posted: 7/16/13 at 11:08pm

Having missed the earlier posts on this board, I just found out who is playing Dolly on tour -- Sally Struthers. I just can't picture her in that part, but maybe it's because I'll always think of her as "Gloria," from "All in the Family." I don't know who is playing Vandergelder, but I don't think it's Meathead.

[PTOPhan]

Posted: 7/16/13 at 11:08pm

Having missed the earlier posts on this board, I just found out who is playing Dolly on tour -- Sally Struthers. I just can't picture her in that part, but maybe it's because I'll always think of her as "Gloria," from "All in the Family." I don't know who is playing Vandergelder, but I don't think it's Meathead.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 7/17/13 at 10:32am

But Herman said Carol was his favorite Dolly in her documentary?!

Count me in as one of those who will adore a Patti revival, but then again I also loved Streisand in the film. Patti's Goodbye Dearie would be glorious.

[logan2]

Posted: 7/17/13 at 10:44am

You would lose that wager, Gaveston, but then it wouldn't be the first time you owed me money.

[N2N Nate.]

Posted: 7/17/13 at 11:50am

Don't mean to Hijack this thread but what do you guys think of Barbra Streisand's Dolly? I get the feeling that many didn't like it on here. She was my first Dolly so I am biased but I thought she was perfect.

Edit: I read the 5 page thread about the Hello Dolly film and basically the jist was Babs was vocally Amazing but was too young for the role.

Updated On: 7/17/13 at 11:50 AM

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 7/17/13 at 12:48pm

Barbra is the Dolly my daughter grew up with too and she absolutely loves her in it.

My problems is with the film, and not Barbra per se. She was funny and sang the hell out of the songs.

Matthau was a real problem for me. I usually love him but he brought NOTHING to the part and had ZERO chemistry with Streisand.

Marianne McAndrew as Irene Malloy had no spark and she seemed too old for Cornelius.

The two of them weighed the film down. Direction wasn't good either and the film overall really lagged. I only tune in now to watch the Hello Dolly number. Love having Louis in it.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/17/13 at 6:31pm

You would lose that wager, Gaveston, but then it wouldn't be the first time you owed me money.

I'm sure that's true, Logan. LOL.

But not coincidentally, I was in a carload of musical-theater fans when I heard the LuPone/Rudetsky exchange and I told them about my discussion with you here. Someone immediately piped up from the backseat:

"He wants to see Patti LuPone as Dolly?! Must be because Margaret Hamilton is dead."

***

I thought Streisand was atrocious the first time I saw the film (I missed the first run of FUNNY GIRL, so it was the first time I had seen her in a movie.)

Yes, she's too young, and, imo, not nearly charming enough. She bullies everyone in Yonkers more than she charms them (a la Channing).

That being said, her comic timing is fabulous and, boy howdy, can she sing the score! I have rewatched the film dozens if not hundreds of times after I learned to accept her limitations. If I could only have one CD of the score, it would be the film version, if only for the duet with Louis Armstrong!

But none of that makes Streisand "right" for the role.

[logan2]

Posted: 7/18/13 at 3:20am

Gaveston, I'm embarrassed to say I don't get the Margaret Hamilton joke. Was it your passenger's way of suggesting Patti LuPone isn't attractive enough, or just too witchy (i.e. not charming)?

But, let me clear it up for you and those circus friends that were stuffed inside your clown car.

I am a HUGE fan of Patti LuPone - so I would love to see her play Dolly. Because I'm such a fan, she would be perfectly charming enough for me in the role. Maybe no else on the planet, but exciting for me.

Hell, I would even love to see Dunaway in the role, even though she can't sing, is way too old, and I'm sure no one on this board finds her the least bit charming. But when I love a performer, I enjoy seeing them in anything and everything.

I've only ever seen the film version of Dolly - so I don't have any rigid rules about the embodiment of that character, besides the fact that the two most famous women to play her were Streisand and Channing. I'm not familiar with the source material The Matchmaker, so the fact that she's even supposed to be charming isn't on my radar.

When I think of Dolly Levi, I think of a loud, pushy, scheming, obnoxiously funny woman. Charming wouldn't even make my list of character traits.

So hopefully we can put this behind us and now focus on the fact that I think Christine Ebersole would be the perfect musical Medea.

Updated On: 7/18/13 at 03:20 AM