Kiss of the Spider Woman — Page 2

I appreciate the correction, Goth. LOL.

One other concession: I should have said VALENTIN's point (initially) is that escapism = fascism. Obviously, Puig thinks "goodness" AND "beauty" (in Greek terms, good is defined by actions not intentions) have their respective values.

Otherwise, Fantod and Eric, I admit I am speaking in broad terms because this is a message board and I'm already criticized for being too verbose. (Hence, my more egregious claim in a previous post that something was both "acute" and "ambiguous". One of you should have called me on that, I think!) The point is not whether Valentin and Molina actually achieve penetration; the point is each loves the other in his own way. That is more important (to me) than a woman (even the fabulous Miss Rivera) climbing the netting.

I am also speaking from memory about a show I saw 20 years ago. Although I have reviewed the OBCR recently, I don't find it specific enough to be much help.

Alas, Fantod, being gay is not an automatic cure for homophobia. We gays grow up in the same society as non-gays. Also, I'm not talking about conscious intent so much as unconscious result.

Yes, Eric, I usually assign more blame to McNally because many of his other works express similar attitudes. But I have recently reread COLORED LIGHTS in which Kander and Ebb profess their disinterest in "politics". Quite the pair of Molinas in search of a Valentin. (And I disagree: despite the miscasting of Hurt, I think the film does a better job of dramatizing the pair than the musical, thanks to Julia.) With the possible exception of POTO, I think it's safe to assume Prince is always the muscle on a Prince show.

Updated On: 4/11/15 at 09:01 PM

I don't feel dismissed, Eric. You brought my views into the discussion.

But listen again to "Anything for Him". Molina sings "I don't care about his causes, but I'd do anything for him", a hook he has borrowed from the Spider Woman herself. On the contrary, Molina responds with "He'd do anything for me."

I just don't hear the reciprocity I find in other versions.

And my admittedly faulty memory is that there were other scenes that showed Valentin's treatment of his cellmate to be nothing but political cause-serving. My takeaway was that Latin leftism was a con job. I wish I had a copy of the libretto.

***

On the other hand, if Prince logs in, he will point out that the "kiss" of Aurora = death, which tilts things back toward Valentin's favor. Perhaps that's where you think I am blind.

I have never seen a live production, but have listened to both cast recordings. Obviously I cannot comment on the stage performances, but on the recordings I have to say I prefer Vanessa Williams. I feel like a sinner for saying that, but she just exudes a dangerous sexiness on that recording that I feel Chita lacks. I realize this may have been different on stage, but if Chita had it live, I don't feel like she brought it to the recording studio.

While I find Chita and her lower keys more appealing on her recording (partly because I saw her, and it's by far the one I play more often even if I think the later one, produced by the brilliant Thomas Z. Shepherd is better in terms of how it presents the material,) keep in mind too that a lot of her appeal was her stage presence and particularly dancing. I'm sure Vanessa's dancing was less emphasized (and I seem to recall Carol Lawrence was not too well regarded in the role.)

And of course there's the whole kinda meta framework--Chita was a gay icon for theatre goers, Vanessa not really--especially at the time.

I actually remember Chita dancing a lot--but that was eons back and I was young I have a bootleg of her in London (so pre-Broadway) and she has a LOT of choreography and seems very much in control--but that was relatively early in the run (and I believe Bebe did go on a number of times during the London run.) Or maybe you saw her when she had a cold? :P Also, some of my impressions may be coloured by the fact that I was so disappointed when I saw her again in A Dancer's Life how very little full out dancing she did (which was silly of me considering her age, but...)

Curtain, do you remember your reaction between the two productions?

Prince says he dropped the Rita comparison after Purchase--and that makes sense because she certainly was rarely styled exclusively like her--whereas in the Purchase pictures Lauren Mitchell was--costume and hair anyway, not ethnicity--styled like her. (It's interesting that Stroman choreographed the Purchase production but not after--though Prince says it was justbecause they wanted an entirely fresh production team.)

Speaking of other Broadway Auroras, did anyone see Maria Conchita Alonso?

Updated On: 4/12/15 at 04:42 AM

It was so long ago, I don't remember that much about the Purchase production. I do remember I wrote a long letter to Hal Prince with what I thought would be fixes. I wish I had kept a copy.

I remember that I liked John Rubenstein very much. I thought Kevin Grey was ok, but not a perfect fit, and Lauren Mitchell was just too American looking for me. I think the show changed quite a bit when it hit broadway. The overall look and feel of it was darker

I wonder what will become of that reading with Audra McDonald, Alan Cumming,and Steven Pasquale...

The one and only Spider Woman-Aurora in my eyes is CHITA RIVERA~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZmpbUF_Ha0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woX1ZMYXkIY

Opening Night Special of Kiss...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVyQ5po7YoY

Updated On: 4/12/15 at 05:19 PM

Well, if we're going to be honest about it, by the time she opened the show in L.A., I thought Miss Rivera was looking rather fragile. I was actually uncomfortable watching her climb the netting; she looked like she might lose her grip and fall at any moment.

As for borrowing a dramatic device from CABARET, the same team had already done so with ZORBA, back in the late 1960s. Pirandello (and then Thorton Wilder) had made the "emcee" device popular decades earlier. (There's an Italian term for such characters who narrate, comment on and also participate in the action. It's more specific than "narrator", but it escapes me at the moment.)

I'm sure you're right, Eric, but American musical theater is so presentational by its very nature, the difference between the Emcee, the Storyteller and the Spider Woman isn't as stark as it would be in another genre.

Almost everybody in an American musical ends up addressing the audience, since that is the form's convention.

Granted, thanks to his love of Brecht, Prince plays with the convention more precisely, but every character sings directly to the audience in a Hammerstein or Porter musical.