LOVE NEVER DIES will not arrive on broadway this season...uh duh?- Page 2

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 12:12am

^ ok I understand now! :) that is true that many people are not happy with what he did with the show. I think it's not the ending and story people wanted. The story is set ten years later so 1) a lot can change in ten years and 2) some of the characters Webber focuses on and develops in Love Never Dies were not fully developed in Phantom. Becauase of this, I do not think Webber made any stretches with the characters or what happened in the story. However I know many people do not like it because they said he did. Just my thoughts..

Updated On: 10/3/10 at 12:12 AM

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 12:17am

Did the Phantom rape Christine?
I missed that.

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 12:54am

Did the Phantom rape Christine?

No. There's no rape in either the original or the sequel. To make the plot of the kid fit into the storyline, the writers shoehorned a scene in which Christine meets the Phantom once again after the events of the first show into the narrative of LOVE NEVER DIES.

[Sally]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 1:38am

bwayphreak234,

I think that for people who aren't happy with the show, it's not so much that it's not the ending people wanted. I think Webber very much over-estimated how many people wanted any "second ending" at all. Audiences have been satisfied for years to imagine their own what-came-afters, if they were of a mind to.

---Then, there are the problems with the show others have mentioned.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 1:41am

^ that's a really good point!

[phantomcrazy14]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 3:48pm

I'm kinda sad because I wanted to see it. I think the score is good, except the hrrible vaudville ones (and there suppossed to be bad) The story definately has its flaws. I agree The Phantom is pathetic in this. He should be the Phantom of old. Also, it's just the ending. Very surprising and proves the name of the title wrong??? I hope it makes it here next year.

[chellylovesrent]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 6:52pm

I think the soundtrack is okay, but it's obviously not as good as the original. They should have just made it a workshop (not sure if it was one) before opening it in London. Tim Rice or someone else that's amazing should've wrote the lyrics.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 10/3/10 at 7:41pm

"except the hrrible vaudville ones (and there suppossed to be bad)"

I didn't get the impression that Meg's vaudeville stuff was supposed to be intentionally bad. I thought it was there to show the way music was changing during that time period, with opera/classical beginning to go from the standard of the period to becoming a more upper-class/elite art form as vaudeville and the sounds of the music-hall began to rise.

That being said, I don't care for most of Meg's music, especially the constant repeats of "Bathing Beauty." This is, of course, based solely on the recording, as I have not seen the show in London, so do not know if any of that has since changed between the recording and the premiere production.

[mallardo]

Posted: 10/4/10 at 7:34am

When I think about it, what other ending could there have been for this story?

---SPOILER---

Christine has to die. She can't end up as Mrs. Phantom and that's what she would be since Raoul is already on a boat back to France. They were trying for an upliftng ending by having the boy, Gustave, accept his mutilated father whose face had repelled him earlier. But it comes off as false and, frankly, corny.

Re Bathing Beauty, it's more or less as was in the recording. As staged it's a kind of homage to Drowsy Chaperone with Meg Giry doing quick costume changes behind beach towels a la Janice Van der Graf in Show Off. Meg ups the ante however by ending topless - facing upstage. It got one of the biggest reactions of the evening.

[Justin D]

Posted: 10/4/10 at 12:48pm

I've said before, it is the ending that needs the most work.

They have to accomplish 2 major things in a short time: Christine dying (and Gustave will have to deal with her death) and him accepting the Phantom as his dad. It's too much to do in a short time.

Perhaps Gustave needs to find out about the Phantom being his dad before he is kidnapped somehow?

The other thing would be to totally re-do the ending. It is a 'free' story so they can change it as they wish. You can end up with several possibilities for who survives in the end:

Gustave & the Phantom

Gustave & Mme Giry

Gustave alone (with some sort of Phantom suicide after christine's death ,a-la the big fire)
Gustave being presumed dead but in fact is alive somewhere, now Mme Giry has to raise him after everyone else dies in the fire.

Gustave & Raoul(with Raoul not actually leaving)

There are alot of possibilities in there, they just have to pick the one that works best on stage.


Book aside, there are alot of shows around that have been successful with a shabby book. Phantom itself has some big plot holes. Look at Cats, that didn't have a book at all really and ran for ages. So even if they cant fix the book, once they put on a good show (production wise) and add a few more songs I think they will survive the critics and focus on tourists.

As for Gustave's conception, they should have gone about it slightly different to make it more plausible: Christine is having a hard time dealing with what really happened in part 1 and now that some time has passed, she is nervous about the marriage, not that she prefers the Phantom, but just some cold feet, she goes to her father's grave for support again and it so happens that is where the Phantom is hiding (and not hiding in some random place and she some how finds where he is hiding by accident) Once she stumbles across him there with all her insecurities and daddy issues she gets caught up in the moment and dot, dot, dot)

[Sally]

Posted: 10/4/10 at 1:29pm

"Book aside, there are alot of shows around that have been successful with a shabby book. Phantom itself has some big plot holes. Look at Cats, that didn't have a book at all really and ran for ages. So even if they cant fix the book, once they put on a good show (production wise) and add a few more songs I think they will survive the critics and focus on tourists. "
----------------------------------------------------------------
What you say is true, but Phantom was a big hit immediately plot holes and all, and CATS, very much a dance show, apparently didn't need much of a book. There must be something very flawed about Love Never Dies if it has already been tinkered with considerably (it has), and is in for more changes. It does please some audience members and has its fans, but the creative team(s), whoever they are or will be, are trying to play catch up. I will be surprised if the show does more than limp along for a year or two.

mallardo, I think you are right that the ending they have for "this" story is probably the only one possible, but the story of the three main characters and the Girys could have gone various ways, including having Raoul and Christine "living happily ever after " Lloyd Webber and company chose to have a sequel telling one of the possible stories and chose to tell the one they did. They are probably stuck with it. I would really be surprised if they go back to square one.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 10/4/10 at 2:12pm

Although I would change many things in the plot/book, as it stands, I would have Giry shoot Meg to save Gustave (and some parent/sibling irony) then Phantom, Christine and Phantom Jr. re-unite in the third sequel. YOU CAN'T STOP THE DARK!

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 1:01am

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review_Roundup_LOVE_NEVER_DIES_Revised_20101222

The show reopened tonight with the new changes. The reviews seem to be a lot better. I really hope we will see this come to Broadway soon.

[jsg03jd]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 1:56am

I read the reviews and if it's improved, then I wouldn't mind seeing this come to New York. I mean, it's PHANTOM so it's supposed to be bombastic and over-the-top, right? More importantly, I've become a fan of Ramin Karimloo after watching the CineCast of the 25th Anniversary Les Miz Concert. If the show does make a Broadway transfer, I hope RK crosses the Atlantic and opens it here.

[singtopher]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 2:16am

Webber should be kissing Julie Taymor's ass for taking the disaster spotlight off LND.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 2:27am

It seems like Andrew has almost gotten this disaster almost control. The reviews are way better than when the shoe first opened and the changes that were made sound like they will do a lot to help the show.

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 9:37am

This diehard Phantom Phan spent a pretty penny getting the soundtrack as soon as it came out. I was really, honest to goodness looking forward to it. As soon as I listened to it, I wanted to pitch it out my car window on the freeway.

The vaudeville numbers make the bile rise to the back of my throat, the book is just lousy and I couldn't be happier if this show never comes across the pond. The only good thing in it for me was Ramin Karimloo when he sings "Until I Hear You Sing". Those money notes he puts over, yowza!! Really terrific.

As for the shows delays, I keep reading where it's Andy's health that keeps the show from coming over (*cough*..."b*llsh*t"). That's just the excuse to bide more time to work on this turkey. He's already got enough money, leave this lame-o sequel in London.

[Pan_Am_L-1011]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 11:14am

I have not seen LND. For me, the single most important thing in a musical is the music. I can forgive a weak book and plot if the music is good, but I cannot forgive a weak score for a strong book and story.

In my opinion, LND is ALW's best score yet. I think it is magnificent and the use of motifs, especially in the first act finale is brilliant.

Story wise, I'm not sure what to think, but this discussion has finally led me to begin reading The Phantom of the Opera.

I do not believe Christine ever chose Raoul at the end of POTO. She never had the chance - the Phantom made that decision for her. Where the original failed, IMO, is it never told us who Raoul was - he was a very one dimensional character. All we knew was he was handsome, rich and a fan of Christine. I never understood why she would chose him over the Phantom. The Phantom wrote beautiful music, which is a shared passion. Furthermore, she lost her father young and the Phantom was a type of father figure. However, one cannot forget he is/was a murderer. Without knowing anything about Raoul, I think the most logical course of action would have been for her to pick no one. I'm basically reading the book to get a better idea of who Raoul is in the original.

I don't mind the vaudeville numbers. As a previous poster says, it fits with the changing music preferences of the time. While I like The Beauty Underneath, I do not think it, in the musical style it was written, fits with the rest of the score, much like I don't thing the title song in POTO fits.

The bottom line is he has given us a glorious score and has really given me a lot to think about when it comes to the characters and their development. That is a success in my eyes.

I think people, especially critics, love to hate ALW. That is unfortunate. This is a better show, music wise, book wise and plot wise (despite it's weaknesses) than a lot of shows that run for years.

I wish it a long and heathy run.
Updated On: 12/23/10 at 11:14 AM

[BroadwayBound115]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 11:26am

From reading the tidbits of those reviews, it seems like the critics really focused on the SHOW instead of a Phantom of the Opera Sequel, which is nice.

[Sally]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 1:46pm

The reviews are way better? Have you read only the snippets from the reviews that were in the linked summary?

I've read all seven of the reviews that have come out so far, and it looks to me that there are three very favorable: Spencer in the Telegraph, Lister in The Independent, and Coveney in The Stage.

Four reviews are unfavorable: Benedict in Variety Magazine, Hitchings in The Evening Standard, Jake Orr in A Younger Theatre (not mentioned by Broadwayworld).

http://www.ayoungertheatre.com/review-love-never-dies-adelphi-theatre-andrew-lloyd-webber/

---And Marmion in the Daily Mail.

At this time, the reviews are as mixed as they were for the first opening.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 2:19pm

I read all seven as well. While the reviews still acknowledge that there are problems, they also say that these changes have helped the show greatly. While nit all the reviews are positive, it seems to me that they are nowhere near as bad as they were upon opening.

edit: I do see your point though Sally, the reviews are nowhere near raves and there are obviously still problems with the show, but at least these changes helped.

Updated On: 12/23/10 at 02:19 PM

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 3:28pm

"I never understood why she would chose him over the Phantom."

I am always dumbfounded when people say this. The phantom is a crazy stalker and murderer. In the book he had intentions of blowing up the opera house until Christine managed to touch his soul with her pity. The dude had a torture chamber in his house! She didn't love him, she pitied him, and nothing more. Why do people always think she would/should have chosen the crazy one?

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 8:30pm

I always find it great fun to read sequels written by folks who didnt write -- and apparently didnt understand -- the source material. If you think this is bad, stumble through SCARLETT, the "approved" sequel to GWTW. It makes this sound almost literary.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 8:35pm

^ I could not agree more. I have not read Scarlet, but I have heard horror stories about that thing.

[chernjam]

Posted: 12/23/10 at 11:52pm

As an ALW fan, but now a crazed POTO "phan" I purchased the soundtrack and really went into the idea of a sequel with an open minded. My hope was that the ALW who's written some really beautiful and more evolved music with each piece would finally have the story, the team to pull off a hit... (It's saddened me that Sunset was considered a "flop" because it never recouped and that every other show has had baggage, the last of which - WIW had a beautiful score, but a story that was really anti-climactic)

The sad thing with LND is that so many of the "phans" had decided to turn on the show before anyone even knew what the story/ending would be... and launched the really silly LSD campaign. Really? Is life that boring that you have to create a fan club against a show?

But anyway - as to LND, for me, there's a lot of really beautiful music and I liked the ideas of Coney Island and all. But in some ways it seems they went almost too reverential with the approach to the sequel. If the decision was Christine should die, then okay - why not stage the Coney Island Fire, set by Meg taking both Christine and Gustave, leaving Phantom and Raoul alone... the result of their self-centeredness?

I don't know. From what I've heard (would love to see it, but don't see me getting to London anytime soon) there's still potential... and I'm hopeful the new creative team in Australia will advance the alterations further adding the depth and character dimension that I doubt Bill Kenwright would have been able to bring to the script changes.

BTW - is Toronto LND off? I thought there was going to be 2 different productions/best one goes to NY or did I miss something?

Jim