Martin Guerre = Les Miz

I have the recording of Martin Guerre playing now and it seems to me that it is almost impossible to think of it not sounding like part of Les Miz. Has anyone else got this feeling?

Updated On: 2/25/08 at 03:04 PM

I disagree.

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I disagree. Also, if you have the cast recording, how in the hell did you manage to misspell it?

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I disagree Martin Guerre is in my opinion is a great show that never quite got out from under the Les Miz shadow. People were always comparing it to Les Miz and saying it was "the same show" Which if you listen to it I don't believe to be true.

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I have two recordings of it a double cd and a single. Ever hear of a typo?

I simply find that a lot of the score sounds like Les Miz, especially parts that echo the barracades music.

Your eyes must be better than mine with my trifocals

I think that that is reading too much into it. Les Miserables of course was based on the novel whereas Miss Saigon was based on Madame Butterfly.


I can see how a little bit here and there in Martin Guirrer can make you reminded of Les Miserables. But, I wouldn't go so far to say that they are all the same.

They are all based on very good source material. I have heard the claim that Les Miserables + Miss Saigon = The Pirate Queen. I don't agree with that. I can see how there can be things that are similar in all three. B&S write very powerful ballads. And I can see how one ballad would sound like another ballad. For example, A Day Beyond Belclare can be seen as One Day More because it is a ballad where different characters are taking different turns.

The same can be said with Master of the House and Boys'll Be Boys. Both are up tempo drinking songs.

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While I agree that there are a couple of Martin Guerre songs that sound a little bit like Les Mis or Miss Saigon, I don't know why people make such a fuss over it. A lot of Sondheim songs sound similar. Same with Jerry Herman, Richard Rodgers, John Kander, Elton John, Michael John LaChiusa, etc.

I so wish Martin Guerre, in its reworked London 1996/97 incarnation, could have played in the US.

Actually, it did. In Detroit, I believe. I don't know the whole story, but I think it was scheduled for a national tour or something. I think part of the reason it didn't go further was that it was the revised version, which was simply a mutilated facsimile of what was a really good show. The new orchestrations were especially awful.

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Updated On: 2/28/08 at 11:28 AM

...whereas in Les Miserables it's the MUSIC that's based on Madame Butterfly.

Huh? What part?

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I haven't given Martin Guerre a fair listen, to either recording really, except for the first few songs, but they struck me as VERY les Mis-like.

And the Pirate Queen was just excruciating to sit through, but I did sit through the whole thing, and I was disappointed by the fact that there was no dramatic tension in the piece. and I was disappointed by the fact that Boublil and Schoenberg (no typo, im spelling it that way on purpose) seem to have to have a bawdy uptempo number in each show that sucks.

And the Pirate Queen was just excruciating to sit through, but I did sit through the whole thing, and I was disappointed by the fact that there was no dramatic tension in the piece. and I was disappointed by the fact that Boublil and Schoenberg (no typo, im spelling it that way on purpose) seem to have to have a bawdy uptempo number in each show that sucks.

Well, I have to agree about The Pirate Queen. While the score had some nice melodies, the show was a complete and total letdown in many ways from the book, to the design, to the staging. And Boys Will Be Boys has got to be the worst B&S number to date, though I do like Master of the House. I don't care for the song The American Dream, but I have to admit it really fits well into the show with respect to the character's persona and motivation. I just get so tired of the laundry list lyrics and relentless melody.

sparrman - I'm not that familiar with Madama Butterfly, but I'll check that out. That's very interesting.

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There is a 2-disc cast recording of Martin Guerre?

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I actually like the Sleeping on Our Own song for what it is, though I admit it adds nothing to the development of the story or characters or contribute to the setting. Most likely, it existed solely to cover a set/costume change. Still, it's a cute song that might work better if recycled in another show where its characters and lyrics are better incorporated into the story.

The one song in the new version I felt was superior to the old was the replacement of How Many Tears for When Will Someone Hear (though I like both songs). And I must admit I love Why (though I think it was in the original version, just not recorded on CD). It's Your Wedding Day is just boring. Welcome to the Land worked much better as an introduction to the characters and their lives in Working on the Land. And Welcome Home was far more exuberant and energetic for Martin's return than Welcome to the Land. And speaking of reworked lyrics, Bethlehem just makes more sense musically and dramatically than The Holy Fight. The main reason Justice Will Be Done is not as effective is simply that the character is an egomaniac, which was brilliantly supported in I Will Make You Proud. Live With Somebody You Love lent a little more motivation to Arnaud and Martin, but provided very little with regards to their relationship, which is why I preferred Here Comes the Morning. They tried to make up for it with Without You as a Friend, but it comes off as too earnest and trite.

But one of my favorite numbers in the original production is Me and the dramatic outburst of the chorus using the melody from Louison ("What about the morning when the stranger came? You were the first to see him, can't you say his name?"). When the song was changed to Who, the tension and irony were almost completely obliterated musically.

And I loved loved loved the original ending, The Land of Our Fathers. It was absolutely gorgeous and stirring. The reprise of Live With Somebody You Love seemed to be the invention of someone who never trusted the material and shifted the focus of the show to rest entirely on the love story.

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