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#51

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/27/05 at 10:18pm

Just trying to get a project produced is hard enough. Who needs to be saddled with the burden of "reinventing" musical theater? And doesn't an art form have to be pretty insignificant if just one show can save it?

#52

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/27/05 at 10:28pm

Rent didn't revolutionize anything- it was well within book musical conventions and just happened to use rock music. And even that wasn't a first.

#53

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/27/05 at 10:59pm

...kids don't want to be perceived as uncool. ANd the pere pressure to like certain groups and reject others is enormous.

I am a teenager and quite frankly, I prefer the older stuff to the new stuff (Not to say that newer shows are not great too, I mean my Spamalot cd is in rotation right after the original Promises, Promises recording which is followed by Oklahoma!).If peer pressure is to blame for detering people my age from the beauty of older theatrical works and the ability to enjoy them as much as new ones, then these people are clearly idiots. If you love theater, like many people say they do, then it doesn't matter to you if you're perceived as being "cool" or not.

"Mrrraaaawwww!" ♥

#54

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/27/05 at 11:18pm

When I am presented with the question, "What is your favorite musical?" My response is immediate. Tick, Tick... Boom! No questions asked. BUT after saying that I quickly make the distinction that I don't feel it is the greatest piece of musical theatre ever. In fact I am quick to point out that is (in my opinion) not even the best theatrical accomplishment of 2001 (an honor I'd bestow upon Urinetown without thinking twice). (TTB is my favorite due to the fact that I relate to so much of it)

I feel a few things should be noted before I continue:
a. Rent got me interested in musicals and I still love it
b. as I write this I am listening to the original cast recordings of Gypsy, Mame, and Cabaret (in a shuffle).
c. I am seventeen, and I write plays (my true interest lies in bookwriting).

It is my belief that to be able to take an art form to new places, one must first understand where that art form has been (I don't mean for that to sound pretentious, but I am sure that everyone wishes to leave a mark in their respective fields) . I am personally out to learn anything there is to know about the medium, as I would like to learn from those who have gone before me. Though I realize this is, often times, not the motivation of many of the "younger generation", I still ask that others take the time to discover and appreciate the pieces of theatrical cannon that may seem alien at first. I know in my case Sondheim was completely inaccessible until I heard Sweeney Todd, and even then it was only after repeated listening that I was able to appreciate what I was hearing (and Sondheim's genius as well). It is easy to say "I Hate Bernstein and Gershwin" but you mustn't stop after one or two listens, as it often takes time to appreciate a work fully. Hell, after only two listens I didn’t even like Rent. So please give the classics a chance. Even if you discover that they simply aren’t your taste (...which is perfectly fine. They aren't everyone's cup of tea.), they will help you appreciate “Modern Broadway” in a different way.

p.s. FrontRowCentre I would love to take you up on your offer to Aigoo as well. If that is alright it would be greatly appreciated.

#55

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/27/05 at 11:26pm

That offer is open to anyone who wants to conatct me. My e-mail address is below....

Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!

I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com

#56

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/27/05 at 11:58pm

Geez. I'm 28 yet I feel ancient because I actually liked Gershwin and Lerner & Lowe from the very beginning. And reading many of these comments makes me feel like an old fart for liking many classic musicals.

Now that I look back on it, I think that liking the classic stuff made me feel sophisticated and grown up at age 12. While I certainly sought peer approval on many things, I could not possibly have cared less at the time, that they didn't understand my love of old musicals.

Updated On: 7/2/05 at 11:58 PM

#57

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/28/05 at 12:54am

I'm in my late 20's and I teach high school theatre. It is really sad that kids have a tendancy to focus only on the new. It seems until I bring it up or decide to direct it, they have no idea what it is. I'm so over the competitions where EVERYONE is singing from Wicked or Avenue Q or Rent. I love these shows, but I think the best songs to PERFORM were from the classics. You can hit "money" notes just as easily in the older shows (hello Merman!) I remember when I was in high school I did a song from Chicago before the revival and people thought I was crazy until I won. Now everyone does stuff from Chicago. So sad that people "love musical theatre" but have no clue where it came from or how it got started. I understand that this is not all teens but unfortunately I speak for the majority of my students. I have started forbidding them from performing anything past 1990 just so they have to work a little harder.

Be the change you want in the world....

#58

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/28/05 at 6:49am

I'm 23 and have an awareness of those 'golden age' musicals, but I'm afraid I just don't like them. I can understand and appreciate what Porgy and Bess, Showboat and Oklahoma did for the musical, but I just don't like having to pay to sit through them. I have seen most of them in both good and bad productions and whilst I like a few of the songs (especially Cole Porter) they are often let down by creaky books, lame jokes (Anything Goes!) and nearly every single Rogers and Hammerstein score puts me to sleep.

There are exceptions - I still think that My Fair Lady is brilliant, and Guys and Dolls and West Side Story are as vibrant today as when they were written - but most of my CD collection runs from the 1970's because I happen to find those shows much more interesting. However, I'd like to echo Cages or Wings plea for those just getting into musical theatre to at least try and see these shows live before writing them off

#59

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 6/28/05 at 7:44am

"most of my CD collection runs from the 1970's because I happen to find those shows much more interesting."

Well, for some people stuff from the 1970's is ancient history.

And I like many classic musicals, but by no means do I like them all. Listening to "Bess You Is may Woman" makes me cringe.

As has been said repeatedly, nobody is saying that you MUST like older musicals, just that you should at least be familiar with them before dismissing them as granny music.

That doesn't make you look hip, it makes you look unschooled.

#60

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/1/05 at 11:13am

I guess it depends on each person, but I'm 18 and I know a lot about old musicals and do my best to see revivals to appreciate them. I think West Side Story was the best show ever made, I also have seen some of the older shows on video like Hugh Jackman's Oklahoma and some others, as well as renting many movies that don't live up to the shows but give me an idea of the show. Actually, tomorrow my mom and I are going to Finian's Rainbow in Connecticut, my mom loves the show but it's never been revived so she jumped at the chance to see this and let me experience it. I've watched documentaries and try to learn new things all the time.

However, not being able to see original productions hinders me slightly. Though I believe West Side Story is the best musical, having never seen a professional performance of it, I can't say it's my favorite, I only label as my favorite's ones I've seen on broadway, and often revivals are well done but don't compare to the original productions. I appreciate the historical significance of shows such as Oklahoma! even though it wouldn't be a favorite of mine.

I wish there was a way to make older broadway more accessible to us, public tapes of original productions that date furhter back than Lincoln Center library and are more accessible. Oh well.

"If there was a Mount Rushmore for Broadway scores, "West Side Story" would be front and center. It snaps, it crackles it pops! It surges with a roar, its energy and sheer life undiminished by the years" - NYPost reviewer Elisabeth Vincentelli

#61

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/1/05 at 11:32am

Just to add another comment about those under 21 and their alleged underappreciation of the more classical Broadway shows.

I am 16 (17 in a few days) and like the many people who have posted before me, I have (and always will have) a great appreciation for older musicals. Musicals older than ALW even! <-- note the sarcasm. I was introduced to Broadway when I was a few moths old. My mother would play Evita for me in the car instead of Disney musicals. When we moved to New York, I became more passionate about my own musical preferences. I have been collecting as many OBCRs as I possibly can and have been learning and researching to the greatest amount my free time will allow.

I understand why people believe that teens love Rent, Wicked, and perhaps Phantom exclusively. Believe me I have had the debates in school with my friends who swear by Phantom of the Opera or Cats. The positive moral is that once I introduced them to Sweeney Todd or Kiss me Kate, they fell in love.

For me, I am not so pessimistic about people who stick by one musical. At least they have the ability to experience a part of something that we are all so passionate about. Is that really a bad thing? If they're not willing to expand their horizons, they're missing out, but at least they have learned something.

Keep the peace, take care of each other, and may you find your promised land. -TJST

#62

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 12:40pm

I don't understand the argument that some of you can't find classic musical recordings because of where you live. Any library would have them and everyone has access to amazon.com. To me, its easier to find the classics than some of the newer shows. I have never failed finding the major classics in any Borders.

"Why do you care what people might say? Why try to fit into their design?" (Side Show)

#63

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 12:59pm

Today's Wicked" is tomorrow's "West Side Story".

As much as we can want young people to love "Music Man" or "Showboat", young people are going to gravitate to what they think is "theirs". There's nothing wrong with them liking "Hairspray" over "Of Thee I Sing". At least they have an interest in musical theater, which is hard enough.

The problem is (as seen here) when kids become fanatical about Wicked being the best musical ever.

Ignorance is temporary. Stupidity last forever. Watch out BWW... HE'S BACK.

#64

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 1:15pm

Let me preface this by saying I'm 27. I have been listening to older musicals my whole life. I can understand kids getting into musicals through Wicked and Rent and the more modern shows. What bothers me is that they come on this board, claiming to be musical theater fans, but not having any knowledge of shows outside of the three or four they may know. Certainly, knowing three or four is better than none, but why log onto a thread that says "Favorite song" or whatever and hijack the thread with repeated posts about Defying Gravity and La Vie Boheme? Again, and I've been yelled at about this already, I AM NOT AGAINST THOSE SHOWS. I consider Rent to be one of my favorite shows of all time. I enjoyed Wicked a lot. But I STILL maintain that someone who posts to a list like that should have a broader knowledge of shows against which to compare.

Some of you might be thinking this is a waste of time. Well, my goal in this is twofold. One, as a teacher, I want kids to learn -- learn about what makes this art form so great. It's not like an art history major is going to JUST look at Van Gogh's work and say "Van Gogh is the best in all categories because I have nothing else to compare him to." To truly appreciate the art form, you need to have the background and experience to truly judge or justify what you would claim to be "the best." Second, I can see from the people who've responded on this thread that I'm not alone in this. It's nice to see that others still respect and listen to shows other than Wicked and Rent. (AGAIN, I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THOSE SHOWS -- I'VE SEEN WICKED TWICE AND RENT THREE TIMES, STOP SAYING THAT I JUST HATE THEM AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!). Hopefully this thread will encourage others to join our ranks (I sound like the guys in Cool Cool Considerate Men, though I'm definitely not advocating a move to the right!)

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#65

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 2:01pm

As far as young people getting exposure to older shows, I think it was at Theatermania.com that someone wrote a column suggesting that older classic musical theater works should be performed in repertory theaters the way the Brits do with Shakespeare.

#66

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 2:02pm

Couple of things need to add...

Remember I'm 18...skimmed through this thread earlier, read the whole thing...hating Bernstein? He's my favorite composer of all-time, an absolute genius! I guess it's personal taste, but when you really get to a point where you're just not listening for your own taste but the merit in the music...his music is just genius, especially WSS.

With some more classics, that aren't necessarily my favorites, that's how I view them. I've seen Oklahoma and Showboat and mildly appreciated them, not to the extent I love wicked or rent to be honest but I certainly appreciate their merit and their influence on all of broadway. Even the music man which is really not my taste I understand it's merit.

Personally, as I previously said, I think there are two issues here. One, there are quite a few people who I'm sure love wicked and rent and call it the best and haven't explored other theatre which is unfortunate, but I'm not going to criticize for them. Still, it's not fair to not remember that there are quite a few of us teens who have done everything possible to learn more and get into older classical musicals and have an appreciation of them, and sometimes when I read another thread like "you remember how great the board was before teens invaded" offenses me b/c even though wicked and rent are in my sn, I've talked about many other shows probably a lot more than the two of them, and I am proud of my knowledge of all around theatre.

Two, the problem is accessibility. There's a difference in experiencing a show live on broadway than in a movie, a cast recording or even a tape of a show. I've said how much I love WSS and can't wait for the revival on broadway, but it makes sense that more teens today would say those currently running are more of their favs. With that in mind, I actually do have a question. Some of my experiences with "classic" broadway:

Played in the pit and saw the movie of WSS, saw the Bette Midler movie of Gypsy, saw my Fair Lady movie and own cast recording, saw Camelot movie, saw all major R&H movies, Annie movie, Oliver movie, Oliver at Westchester Dinner theatre, did Music Man, saw showboat special at museum of tv and radio, saw Brigadoon movie, am leaving for Finian's Rainbow in Connecticut shortly, saw Chorus Line movie(eh), saw Hair movie, saw Kiss Me Kate on PBS, saw Hugh Jackman's Oklahoma!, saw Bye Bye Birdie movie, saw Grease movie, and my mom is getting mad we're not leaving for Finian's Rainbow...

but here's my question, I'm prob missing a bit, but can some of you give me more advice on accessing more classics? Whether movies I haven't seen, tapes, regional shows or other ways? I've watched PBS the american musical, I have a classic ultimate broadway CD, and certainly appreciate some of the older ones and would love the oppertunity to get even more into them. Thanks.

#67

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 2:37pm

wickedrentq -- you seem to have a pretty good start. First, as I said, I'm 27. I didn't see a lot of the major classics on Broadway that we're talking about. I wasn't born yet. BUT, I've gone to literally hundreds of regional theater productions of shows. It's not Broadway, but renting a DVD isn't seeing a movie in the theater either. I also listen to every cast recording I can get my hands on. I can't say I like everything I hear - I have CDs I've bought off ebay that I'll never listen to again, but I'm glad I have them anyway. Go to the library, go to the video store - get everything you can get your hands on. In terms of films, first, try to get your hands on the taped versions of shows:
Oklahoma
Into the Woods
Sunday in the Park with George
Jekyll and Hyde (though I think this version is terrible - Hasslehoff ranks, for me, as one of the worst casting decisions in history)
Pippin
--my minds blanking on the ones I have right now.

Films that are especially good:
-1776 (my favorite tranlation of a show to film, almost letter for letter from the play, especially in the newer DVD release with Cool Cool Considerate Men restored)
-Fiddler on the Roof
-Oliver
-My Fair Lady
-West Side Story
-Brigadoon (not the BEST translation, but good movie because of Gene Kelly)
-How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying
-Guys and Dolls
-Kiss Me Kate

Those are the ones that spring immediately to mind....

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#68

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 2:48pm

I'm 16 and I listen to pretty much everything..West Side Story is my favorite of all time. There are just lots of Wicked-ites on this board (on most b-way boards actually) and just havent been exposed to other musicals.

"No two shows are alike in the making. Each show is a living piece of your life in a small unreal world with its own character and integrity; its own new set of memorable experiences and incredible happenings. You begin to love and adapt to its strangeness. Dreams harden into substance. Values come into focus. You wish it would never end. The dream world vanishes like mist before a rising sun; part of you vanishes with it. And back you land in the real world with a thud- fogged, uneasy, jittery, difficult to get along with. There is only one cure. A new show. A new, small unreal world; new visions, experiences, incredible happenings. Again you love it, adapt to it, wish it would never end. But end it does. Another part of you vanishes. That's show business."-Anonymous

#69

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 4:32pm

Jekyll and Hyde is a classic? Wow...just...wow.

"Why do you care what people might say? Why try to fit into their design?" (Side Show)

#70

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/2/05 at 5:26pm

No, J&H isn't classic - but it was one of the precious few live recordings of a show available. Note how I left out Smokey Joes and Fosse. There's also (boneheaded me) Sweeney Todd available, Barnum, and Magic Show (not that the last two are "classic" either really...But they DO provide for more experience.

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#71

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/3/05 at 1:13am

Okay....live recordings, I've done most of those...loove ITW, saw Sweeney, J&H, kinda fell asleep trying to make it through Sunday two different times...oops

Movies...don't remember what I put...but of the ones you've mentioned, I've seen:

Fiddler on the Roof
Oliver
My Fair Lady
West Side Story
Brigadoon

Also saw the live recording of Kiss me kate...I've been yelled at for not seeing Guys and Dolls, I keep hearing diff. things about that movie, some people say it's great, others say it's horrible. Prob should make sure to check that one. Never saw how to succeed or 1776, maybe will check those out, how to succeed first.

#72

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:13am

Better than seeing a live recording/tape of a show....seeing a live show in the audience.

No matter whom does it.

Ignorance is temporary. Stupidity last forever. Watch out BWW... HE'S BACK.

Updated On: 7/3/05 at 03:13 AM

#73

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/3/05 at 11:04am

wickedrentq -- check out those three -- when you see them, let us know. :)
I actually think 1776 is one of the best movie musicals of all time.
Guys and Dolls is DIFFERENT from the show, but it's a great movie. I always get upset that they cut one of my favorite songs - "I've Never Been in Love Before" for a far inferior song, but what can you do?

Of course there's also Chicago now (which I'm guessing you've seen) and Evita (which I actually didn't think was as bad as a lot of people did).
You can also find DVDs of Superman (one of the craziest, campiest things I've ever seen) and Lil Abner (not bad at all). Look on ebay for Superman -- Lil Abner was just released so you can get it on Amazon.

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#74

re: Message Board trend

Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:09pm

Gotta say I don't think kids (at least at my high school) have a problem with being uncool. I have been in love ever since 5th grade when I was in Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat (which will always be my first love) I have a lot of knowledge in older musicals and know Oklahoma and Camelot by heart. I can't say what it is that people don't like about bway around here (Central Illinois) but no matter how hard I try to expose my friends to it, they just say it's stupid and turn off my CDs whenever they get into my car.

Anyways, for me it's not the older musicals I necessarily love but the actors and actresses. Julie Andrews will forever be my favorite singer and Gene Kelly my favorite dancer/singer. I think what they did for the theatre was priceless and the fact that their voices are known by people who don't even like Broadway says a lot for them. I don't think I said this right but I hope you got the idea.

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