New Sondheim interview (Follies film, new project, etc)- Page 2

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 4:51pm

Lol. But no. Goldie's too old, especially when you've got a Phyllis ten years younger than her.

[Pgenre]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 4:57pm

As much as I'd love Williams in the role... Pfeiffer has been and will continue to be my first choice for Phyllis. PARTICULARLY after her delectable and incandescent turn as Velma in HAIRSPRAY.

And Clooney remains my number one Ben, RDJ my number one Buddy.

Meryl for Carlotta? I'd take a Sally OR a Phyllis from her as well, but I'd LOVE her take on Carlotta.

Sally will, indeed, remain the hardest role to cast. I think Lisa Kudrow has everything but the singing ability (and star power?) necessary for the role.

P

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 5:02pm

Pfeiffer is my second choice Phyllis, but I still want Vanessa.

[binau]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 5:09pm

"I loved Sweeney, but I know that I'm the minority."

Maybe a minority here but Burton's Sweeney Todd was immensely successful critically, as mentioned. Sondheim said in an interview he approved of all the cuts, and was happy with the final product. (He said in a telephone interview he thinks it's one of the few musical movies that adapted it appropriately for the medium). Sondheim wanted "Sweeney" to be a horror movie and that's exactly what he got. I think Sweeney is Burton's best film and absolutely proves he is has still 'got in'.

"Burton should stay away from WOODS. We know Burton doesn't like chorus singing on film. Woods is very much an ensemble musical, and the chorus numbers are essential to the piece.
"

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. In an interview Sondheim said that Burton and Logan (the screenwriter) didn't want 'chorus' of random people singing on the street. But he was willing to take an ensemble of all the named characters for the ballad – they did a rehearsal of the Ballad but they (I assume Burton etc..) thought it just stopped the story/show, asking you to 'attend the tale' when you can just 'attend it'.

So I think that a Burton ITW movie would still have ensemble numbers, as they are necessary.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 5:15pm

I loved Burton's SWEENEY. I don't think his treatment of the young couple worked very well, perhaps because of the lack of star wattage provided by both actors cast, but the main storyline worked beautifully and much like Phyllis, I actually thought that a lot of the cuts made for a more enjoyable SWEENEY film.
Plus, it's one of Helena Bonham Carter's best screen performances to date (not to dismiss her earlier work which I find quite impressive too).
FOLLIES is not for him, INTO THE WOODS is.

[Pgenre]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 5:24pm

Steve addresses the chorus issue in today's interview linked elsewhere. I had never heard that THIS was how the chorus was intended on being used:

A: "Tim Burton and John Logan (the screenwriter) didn't want a singing chorus in the film, so we'd rehearsed a version with the principals singing the ballad. But when it came time to film, they felt it would hold up the story. And I said, ‘Fine.' A film requires a different pace and didn't need the ‘attend the tale' — just the tale itself. It was: What will work as a film?"

I wonder who the "principals" are he is referencing? The victims as the singers of the Ballad, or the actual principal characters themselves?

P

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 5:25pm

I think - and I'm pretty sure that this was in the screenplay - as people were killed they became part of the chorus who sang the song.

[Pgenre]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 5:33pm

That's true, PRS, I have the screenplay too... lest we forget that the MAIN reason the Ballad wasn't filmed was because of that month-long drama with Johnny's daughter almost dying from the rusty nail and all that which axed a few weeks from the shooting schedule, I mean Christopher Lee was even outfitted as the Lead Ghost... in film, so much changes on a day-to-day basis I'm wondering if maybe there was a directorial conceit to how the ballads were to be achieved that is more complex than the screenplay (which, even the one on the official site, is dated months before filming even began).

And I still can't believe there are no deleted scenes NOR a commentary by Burton OR Steve on the DVD! Time for a Deluxe Special Edition! Though since the Blu-Ray was gipped out of any bonus content, I guess we'll have to content ourselves with the stuffed-to-the-gills Special Edition for the next few years.

P

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 6:59pm

Noradesmond-
Yes, I felt that Burton did a poor job on Sweeney. And really, where he lost me was with his use of gore (that I still think was more than necessary) and having Tobias physically pull a thumb out of his mouth (did NOT need to see that by any means). Those weren't essential story by any stretch of the imagination...and maybe in 5-6 years, my opinion will change...but as it is now, I did not like it.

However, Corpse Bride was an utter disappointment, and many people did not like Planet of the Apes (I think it was a critical bomb, too) or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. So his track record has not been the greatest in this decade.

[James885]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 8:06pm

Add me to the minority of theater fans who like Tim Burton's Sweeney, and I think it's one his better movies. No, it wasn't a box office smash like Hairsray or Mamma Mia, but the vast majority of the critics did like it, as it has an 85% on Rotten Tomatoes and earned Johnny Depp his third Oscar nomination. In my opinion, most of the cuts made for the movie worked well. I think the only thing I would have liked to have seen is the Judge's Johanna put in.

And I agree that, while I would never want to see the movie cast on stage, I would also not want to see any of the Broadway casts (including Cerveris and LuPone) in the film either. The Broadway casts worked well on Broadway and the film cast worked well in the film.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 8:12pm

Imagine Rob Marshall doing Follies

Be afraid - be very afraid.

[Pgenre]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 8:25pm

Hey, Marshall still has KISS OF THE SPIDER WOMAN to do before anything else, as far as I'm concerned... love him or hate him that's the ideal project for him, and he choreographed it on Bway (for the most part)...

... but I don't think he's the WORST choice for FOLLIES, though his penchant for cuts makes me leery...

I say as long as Sondheim is as involved with FOLLIES as he was with SWEENEY - or more - I will be happy with whatever the result (unless it's a huge disaster, and even then...)

P

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 10/23/09 at 9:25pm

I think that Company would make a great movie. I can see it directed by Rob Marshall, so Bobby projects the musical numbers onto a stage like Roxie does in Chicago. I haven't seen Follies, so I don't know how that might work as a movie, but if done correctly, Company could be stunning.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 4:42am

"Bobby projects the musical numbers onto a stage like Roxie does in Chicago"

So Bobby is gay after all?

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 11:49am

What's with the Rob Marshall backlash?
I'm also worried and not pleased with all the seemingly integral cuts he did to NINE, but the film looks gorgeous on the trailers, and he cast the best people he could find for each role. Perhaps this is the only way we could have gotten NINE on screen at all.
Like it or not, Marshall gave us one of the most well-crafted, original, and cinematic film adaptation of a Broadway musical. His CHICAGO is truly fascinating to watch and I think he is one of the few directors out there who understand how to bring out the cinematic aspect of shows that seem deeply bound in their stage roots. FOLLIES would be a great project for him, IMO.

[James885]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 12:28pm

I think the Rob Marshall backlash has more to do with the fact that he's stated several times that he doesn't believe movie musicals today can be done with people singing 'in real life' (as in directly to each other), instead all the songs must be 'justified', as to make the singing more believable to the audience.

That concept may work for Nine and it certainly worked well for Chicago, but it's not the only way a movie musical can be done. And how many other musical adaptations could be done this way? I haven't seen Follies so I can't comment on it, but surely Les Miserables and Miss Saigon couldn't be done using his concept. At least not without some massive cuts to the score.

Updated On: 10/24/09 at 12:28 PM

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 12:51pm

I think Marshall has a strong point. I finally saw "Singin' in the Rain" a few months ago, and even as a big fan of musicals...it was jarring for them to randomly burst into song at times. I can see why modern audiences have an issue with it.

And, of the musicals where they have as of late, they've not been good films.

[binau]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 5:43pm

I thought that Sweeney Todd was a good example where randomly busting out to sing did work, but that's just me. I guess perhaps because it immediately starts with singing might help this (no awkwardness waiting for that 'moment')

(See other examples, e.g. Dreamgirls, it has been awkward because I felt through the first 1/2 of the movie they were avoiding people singing then randomly they show some random singing on the street).

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 5:53pm

Randomly bursting into song in a musical is the same as randomly bursting into a chase scene in a horror film. You wouldn't go into a scary movie and expect for them not to try and scare you. Same here.

Rob Marshall lost me for good with his ridiculous comments and his cuts in NINE. I haven't seen it yet obviously, but when you cut that much of the score you can't have much respect for it. FOLLIES is something that has way too many important ensemble numbers involving major characters that can't all be "dreams" and these songs are important to the story and can't be cut. So let's just keep Rob busy for a while until another director is assigned to this.

[Marquise]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 8:20pm

~ marshall lost me as well. he doesn't trust movie audiences or the material. he feels he has to resort to gimmicks to justify the musical aspects of the story instead of just letting it be.

let a musical *be* a musical. two of the biggest box office hits of this decade were full out musicals without having to resort to these kind of gimmicks: mamma mia and hairspray.
Updated On: 10/24/09 at 08:20 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 8:45pm

I didn't realize the songs in Nine were going to be in someone's head. When I think of that Chicago conceit, I always want to blame Bill Condon, he of the brilliant idea to make the first book song in Dreamgirls come more than thirty minutes in. A few years ago there was talk of HIM making Follies, but based on Ted Chapin's book, so it would have been a movie about the making of Follies. I'd rather not have an effing Follies movie then, thanks. And I love the Chapin book. I just think trying to find excuses for people singing in a mothereffing musical is tired. And unimaginative.

[Gobstopper]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 9:17pm

I think out of the recent boom of movie musicals in the the 2000s, Burton's Sweeney Todd is second only to possibly Chicago. I loved his vision of Todd, and I think Helena Bonham Carter's performance is stunning (even if her singing is weak).

[wickedfan]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 9:57pm

I, personally, think what makes Burton's "Sweeney" work so well is that they AREN'T "randomly bursting out into song." When they sing it is totally justified, and it feels organic for them to do so. Burton cleverly created an atmosphere where singing seemed totally natural (technically speaking, Burton also made sure that there was music almost constantly playing throughout, whether it be sung or underscore).

I couldn't be more excited for Nine, but I want Marshall away from Follies. There are some songs there that can't be cut unless you make a huge overhaul in the material, but Marshall would cut because they're "book songs." A musical that's being turned into a movie shouldn't have to give up brilliant songs that work in context simply because they're "book songs." It may work in some movie musicals, but that's usually the exception and not the rule.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 8:22am

Because Rob Marshall feels that way about movie musicals I get the sense that he's staying away from the projects where he couldn't find a concept to justify the musical sequences.

The songs in Sweeney worked because Burton had already created a hyper-reality. Having people singing in that world was fine because it was already so far removed from real life, which I would also say about Luhrman's world in Moulin Rouge. But remember that for all the successes, there are an equal number of things that should have been sure fire hits where people are just bursting into song, The Producers, Rent, Phantom, that just didn't ignite the box office the way the studios thought they would.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/26/09 at 3:14pm

That's because - with the exception of Phantom, which I enjoyed - those were terrible, terrible movie. ReNt in particular.