New York Times Reviews Wicked again- Page 3

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/16/05 at 7:18pm

"That's why I think David Yazbek continues to be overlooked and underrated. He's not a "Broadway Baby." He's an outsider, and people in the very elite world of theatre HATE that. Both Yazbek and Schwartz are very talented men who basically do their own thing. The fact that what they do pleases vast audiences pisses people off and gives them the opportunity to say that "the masses" are morons."

Wow. What's that opinion based on? Aside from the fact that Yazbeck got raves for his "Full Monty" (and many raves for "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"), I could cite DOZENS of examples of so-called "outsiders" and non-Broadway Babies who were throughly embraced by both the critics and audiences alike for their very first Broadway work -- Eric Idle, Mel Brooks, Reba McIntire, Twyla Tharp, Billy Joel, Elton John, Antonio Banderas, Hugh Jackman, Roger Miller (for Big River), Marc Shaiman (he was mostly known for movie and tv work before Hairspray), Pete Townsend, Rupert Holmes (a pop song writer known for the "Pina Colada Song" before winning the Tony for his score for Edwin Drood), and so many others. If the work is good -- which is a subjective term -- it will be embraced regardless of the person's background or whether they had previous ties to Broadway or not. I've never seen this outsider bias you speak of (and if there is any, it certainly isn't applied to ALL so-called "outsiders").

As for Spamalot, Brantley's actual quote was "That 'Spamalot' is the best new musical to open on Broadway this season is inarguable, but that's not saying much." And remember, he made that statement BEFORE Piazza and Spelling Bee had opened, so he was only saying that he thought Spamalot was better than DRS, Dracula, Brooklyn et al

Incidentally, most of the reviews for both Sound of Music and Cabaret were very positive.

Updated On: 7/17/05 at 07:18 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/16/05 at 7:33pm

Also, I don't get where this notion that all critics are snobs comes from. While that may have been true many years ago, the current slate of reviewers that we have are a pretty populist lot who prefer simple, fun, light entertainments rather challenging, esoteric difficult works. Remember that shows like The Producers, Hairspray, Avenue Q, Movin Out, The Lion King, Wonderful Town, all got mostly rave reviews (heck Brantley even gave Mamma Mia a positive write-up), while the so-called "snob" shows like Piazza, Caroline or Change, both Wild Partys, Parade, Violet, Side Show, the Pacific Overtures revival et al got mostly mixed reviews (and many negative ones).

These "critics" don't have a bias in favor of the so-called "artistic" shows -- if anything it's just the opposite.

Updated On: 7/16/05 at 07:33 PM

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 7/17/05 at 2:03am

I never said "all critics are snobs."

Some people are snobs. Some people are critics. Neither all people nor all critics are snobs.

Human beings have opinions, and critics are human beings. That's it. They either like something or they don't. Just like the rest of us.

I may have Cabaret confused with another show that I remember reading about and being surprised to hear was not embraced by critics from the get-go. You seem to have a vast knowledge of theatrical history, so surely you can create a list of shows that were generally panned but became hits more readily than I.

Regarding The Sound of Music, according to CurtainUp.com: "The show ran for 1,443 performances despite dismissive reviews by such leading critics of the day as Brooks Atkinson, Walter Kerr and Harold Clurman (who called it a prettily packaged 'bundle of sugar')." And let us not forget that Pauline Kael was basically fired for hating the film version of "The Sound of Music" and making her opinion known.

You know what. Some people love scallops. I, personally, do not care for them at all. Does that make the people who eat scallops and enjoy them "wrong"? Does it make me "wrong"? No, as you say, it's all subjective...and a matter of taste.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/17/05 at 2:38am

Okay, I really like Wicked, but I still don't understand why people seriously loathe the show. Most of the people who proclaim the show as "the best show ever!" are teenagers or preteens. And, from thier point of view, maybe it is. If Wicked were the first Broadway style show I had ever seen, w/ all its spectical and special effects and pop songs, then yeah, I would think it was amazing too. I don't understand why people enjoy bashing a young person's opinion. Yeah their young, get over it. I mean if a young kid came up to you and was like "Power Rangers is the best show ever" you wouldn't be like "you're wrong...and here are the reasons why..." I don't think there is a show out there that is perfect through and through. Even RENT to me could be slightly better, as could other shows. I also don't understand the complain about Schwartz's score? I really like it, except the two Wizards songs and "Thank Goodness" I just really hate that song. I think "Wizard and I" and "Defying Gravity" and "No Good Deed" are some really good songs. I just hate when people bitch to bitch. If you're gonna hate it, tell me why you hate it. Don't say "oh well there are just too many to list", hell, take a minute and write a list.
Also, on a side note I didn't know Brooks Atkinson and Walter Kerr were theater critics, good to know...thanks for all the replies.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/17/05 at 3:01am

Yes, imagine a time when NYC had critics who were SO well-known and respected that the community felt the need and desire to name theatres after them. When you get a chance read Kerr's and Atkinson's reviews (both have several books of their reviews available at any library). They are models of taste, fairness, concision, knowledge and well-considered analysis -- all the more remarkable when you recall that their reviews were written on a deadline in under an hour in most cases (unlike now when critics typically have several days to turn in a review).

Don't hold your breath waiting for Brantley, Kissel, Barnes, Simon, et all to have their names put on a marquee anywhere.

Updated On: 7/17/05 at 03:01 AM

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/17/05 at 3:07am

"David's woefully inadequate voice for Broadway."

I thought he was great in Fiddler.