Nine Casting- Page 4

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 3:54am

I just got this week's EW on the mail, it's the edition with the Fall Movie Preview. Not only is Javier Bardem in at least two or three of the films featured in the report but he has a one page photo next to an Oscar Watch alert for NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. I suspect that all this publicity and attention (as low-key as it may be) will help him in getting cast as Guido Contini. I'm really excited about seeing the final results.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 8:38am

Variety said he was already offered the role, so unless he turns it down he has the part.

And MB---There is no reason Saraghina should be a specific age.

But then again, LuPone is no Kirstie Alley...

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 08:38 AM

[evadiva]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 9:38am

"Well, the press release announcing the movie mentioned that the show would be changed to fit the talents of the people cast."


Heh. Now there's a euphemism.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 10:40am

I think Saraghina needs to at least be pre-menopausal. She also needs to have an overt, earthy, brazen, campy sexuality. LuPone has never had that.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 10:45am

I disagree. I think it would be very Felini-esque. Have you seen Ammacord?

But wait, you think Alley has those qualities? She's never steamed up anything.

[Urban]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 10:47am

^Alley does have Scientology. That is steamed up something at the very least

Michael Bennett - I am actually trying to imagine Patti as any of those things. Not a pretty site.
Updated On: 8/24/07 at 10:47 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 10:51am

I didn't say that Saraghina needs to sexy - she only needs to be inherently sexual. Watch "Saraghina's Dance" from the original film, 8 1/2. It's on Youtube. Yes, I could very much see Kirstie Alley playing that character.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 10:52am

Well, "campy" is a totally wrong adjective for Saraghina anyway.

You have to picture the kind of woman that would teach "sexuality" to a bunch of nine-year-olds. She's an outcast, a deviant and a tramp. She's not "fun" or "campy" unless you want to Disneyfy it.

I could see LuPone playing this much better than the squealy faux-flirt Alley.

Plus, you know, she could actualy SING it.

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 10:52 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 10:54am

Did you watch the clip Best12? The character is total camp.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 11:00am

Yes, I guess we're just seeing it two different ways.

This is NOT camp to me at all.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 11:04am

How is that not camp? The music? The eyes? The over the top makeup and hair? Fellini's films are by his own admission full of camp. If that doesn't qualify as one of his campy moments, than nothing does.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 11:13am

If you find beat-up, homeless whores who take money from little boys to dance provocatively for them "campy," be my guest.

As with most Fellini films, there are a lot of "layers" going on here... to sum it up as superficial "camp" would be unfortunate.

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 11:13 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 11:28am

Intentional camp. Not superficial camp. There is a difference...

Fellini, in my opinion, doesn't depict the character as a beat up, homeless whore. That would be as you say, one layer. She's proud, fertile - a glorified archetype, fondly remembered in Guido's mind, despite the Catholic Church and his mother's view that she (and all overt sexuality) is evil - as further depicted in the classic fantasy sequence with all the women later in the film (where she again provides what I would call moments of intentional camp comedy.) And yes, Fellini famously had the words "remember this is a comedy" on a board posted on the camera for the actor's reminder. Whether that was his true motive or some kind of manipulation - I do belive the character of Saraghina was directed to be played for laughs.

LuPone would handle the comedy of the role fine. But she is not the sort of ripe lusty wench that, camp interpreation or not, the character clearly needs to be.




Updated On: 8/24/07 at 11:28 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:10pm

I'm not saying there isn't a sense of joy or celebration to her scenes and her character, but "camp" to me suggests a parody, lampoon or send-up.

I don't see this or Fellini "sending up" anything here. I see this scene starting in the gutter and working its way up to thrilling and fantastic. That's what's so great about it. Comedic flair? Yes. Camp? Not at all. This isn't Connie & Carla or Hairspray.

And I don't see how Alley could ever be sexy. She's a beautful-looking, robust woman, but with as much sexuality as Minnie Mouse. (and the same squeal) ...or the loud gal sitting on the end stool in the bar, next to all her "fun" gay fellas.

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 12:10 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:25pm

I think the difference in our opinion is that I don't classify all camp as lampooning - I simply define as an over the top comedic style.

The reason you say you can't see Alley in the role is precisely the reason I could - going by the way the character is portrayed in 8 1/2 - not necessarily the musical. She's sexual but not sexy.

I do think the wonderful comedic element of Saraghina's Dance in 8 1/2 is that she ISN'T sexy but she herself is blissfully unaware of that fact. She has an almost childlike abandon with how she moves and jumps and interacts with the boys. As if she could only be sexy in their unintated eyes. Fellini clearly, in my opinion directed her to invoke a feeling in Guido as an adult not of lust or sex, but nostalgia.

The musical NINE doesnt have as many layers in it, but I would be surprised if the character weren't treated at least as comedic in Rob Marshall's movie.


Updated On: 8/24/07 at 12:25 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:33pm

as much sexuality as Minnie Mouse. (and the same squeal) ...or the loud gal sitting on the end stool in the bar, next to all her "fun" gay fellas.

Best12, I laughed for about five minutes after reading that.
This is an interesting discussion you're having about Saraghina. I find the Rumba scene to have different layers, at first it's clearly comedic, the way she reveals her cleavage, the way she moves her hips, the make-up, the horrible hair. Then, you think about the actual moment and this woman (at least I do, perhaps I'm overanalyzing it) and you realize that she's basically a whore that is way past her prime, we're laughing AT her not with her, and that makes her a bit pathetic.
However, I don't think this is in the show. The Saraghina in NINE (at least the way I judge from Kathi Moss' brilliant Tony performance) is incredibly erotic, earthy, funny, streetsmart, if grotesque.
I definitely see Alley playing the film Saraghina, though I think she'd pretty much be playing the tabloid version of herself. LuPone would be a bold choice, she'd be erotic (yes, after seeing her spark up quite a sexual chemistry with Boyd Gaines in GYPSY I believe she could be an erotic Saraghina), imposing, a real big Italian matron. However, after seeing the clips from the film and seeing once again the amazing Tony clip (the choreography and Moss' vocals/acting makes it one of my favorite Tony performances), I'm even more convinced that Sara Ramirez is the most suitable actress for the role.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:38pm

There should definitely be humor in this, as one of the layers (we agree on that)... or the number and the scene will sink like a lead balloon. It's really walking a tightrope. If you tip too far one way, it will end up maudlin and depressing, if you go too far the other way, it will be too campy, phony and grotesque... and anything but sexual (either perverse or titillating, take your pick).

It's kinda like the fat lady at the circus.

I never knew whether to laugh or cry at her. Or to love her or be revolted by her.

And the "circus" atmosphere of this scene is very important.

But I guess I'm getting hung up on your semantics here. "Camp" is a slang term created and perpetuated by the gay community. It has a gay sensibility to it, a bitchiness, and definitely a lampooning of people (usually women) or situations.

If Saraghina and her scenes go that direction, it would be a huge mistake. It would land with a thud, trivialize the scene and the moment in Guido's life, and alienate many in the audience.

I hope to God they don't do that.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:43pm

ray---Nice post. The more I think about it, I could see Ramirez in the part. I guess my initial aversion to her was "Oh, no, another Latin in an Italian movie!" At least LuPone "reads" Italian to me (not to mention it's her heritage).

...which is silly. Ramirez could do it, I agree.

...if she's available! TV has given her a bit of recognizability, she has a Tony for respectability, and she can SING.

I'd be happy if they cast her.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:52pm

MB---I think having this discussion back and forth emphasizes the fact that it's a tricky part to cast and a tricky scene to play. It has to strike just the right chord (and it ain't a simple tritone either).

I actually think the hardest part to cast though is Liliane.

MB, who do you think can do it? I've suggested Leslie Caron and Catherine Deneuve, but the more I think about it, there are "not quite rights" with both of them. Starting with age.

I think Liliane needs to evoke that Follies Bergeres old-school flair, but she also needs to be "vital" and intimidating to Guido. She's his producer, and when she says "dance," he "dances."

Dench can do the comedic intimidation part beautifully! But I don't think she could be French to save her life, and this is a big requirement of the role, unless they throw out the character, the song, and build it up again from scratch (which is, I guess an option, but a daunting one, and a big gamble).

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 12:52 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 12:58pm

Besty, LuPone's Italian heritage is definitely one of the reasons I think she'd make a great Saraghina. Of all the actors we know are being considered there are no Italians. I think the only one is Laura Benanti and I doubt she'd get cast in the role when she's competing against some major Hollywood star power.
However, at least Sara Ramirez very much has the look, the pipes, and the right style of acting and presence to be part of the world of NINE.
I think the fact she has a much-beloved role in one of the most popular and acclaimed TV shows at the time could help her get cast in the role. She's one of my favorite parts of GREY'S ANATOMY and I really find her to have just about all the characteristics I want in my Saraghina. Hearing her sing "Be Italian" would be a dream come true (if they don't do away with that song, that is).
On a completely different note, Juliette Binoche supposedly auditioned for the movie, it's sad her name isn't being mentioned in any of the reports. I think she'd have made a great LaFleur.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 1:03pm

I was just thinking Binoche for Liliane! Also Isabella Rosellini.

As for Saraghina, I kinda hate the idea of a non-Italian singing "BE ITALIAN."

But wouldn't it be a kick if the "French gal" (Liliane) ended up being played by one of the few ITALIANS cast?

The only other highly recognizable "French gals" I can think of for Liliane are Julie Delpy and Audrey Tatou, and they're too young, not intimidating enough, and not theatrical enough for Liliane.

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 01:03 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 1:16pm

I think a lot of the casting of the film will ultimately depend on Marshall's vision. My hunch, purely speculative, is that he will go back and borrow certain elements and style of 8 1/2. Marion Cotillard, should the casting rumour be true, is very in the Amouk Aimee mode. And the earlier reports of Zelweggar as Carla are understandable if you look at that role as it was depicted by Sandra Milo in the original film.

But, of course Liliane is an invention purely of the musical. I don't really think Caron or Deneuve or Judi Dench (totally wrong) are really right for the role, as much as I love them. They are too old, and I agree don't really evoke the right feel.

I think the trick is that we are assuming this role needs to be played by a French actress. Part of me wishes that Marshall would go for a more ecclectic cast of "entertainers" and not just A list movie stars. A movie of NINE could be deliriously wonderful and over the top if it included a true Fellini assortment of bizarre personalities.

In that mode, and I know I will get flack for this, the first person who popped into my mind was Grace Jones! Yes, crazy Grace Jones the amazon model/french singer/action movie star/dancer. I mean could you imagine her in in Follies Bergere? A sort of lethal Josephine Baker. It would certainly be eye popping! Here is a recent pic of her:



That said, I think realistic choices are probably people french film actresses like Sophie Marceau or Fanny Ardent.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 1:17pm

Wow, the idea of Rossellini playing ANY part in this movie is just dreamy. Talk about a fun twist, given that Fellini worked in ROMA CITTA APERTA. Love the idea. And actually, yes, she'd be a fabulous LaFleur even if she's Italian. I can't believe I hadn't thought of her earlier. I recently saw a 30 ROCK re-run and Rossellini was a guest star (whoever does casting for this show is doing a great job), I was reminded how much I enjoy her performances.
What strikes me as somewhat odd about the casting for the movie is that the ethnicity associated so strongly with some of the roles in the Broadway show are being completely neglected, at least in terms of the actors they seem to be pursuing. Guido has been played most famously by non-Italian stars Raul Julia and Antonio Banderas so I'm not tickled about the casting of another Latin in the role. However, when you have the production team pursuing Dame Judi Dench who is more British than the Queen herself for old Folies Bergeres dancer and VERY French producer LaFleur, I think there's a problem.
Some of the actors they seem to be considering are great, but some just really strike me as odd.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 1:20pm

I love Rossellini, but its hard to imagine her tearing up the screen with "Follies Bergere" - she's just not that kind of actress. She'd make a wonderful Guido's Mother if Loren isn't available.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 1:29pm

No flack from me on Grace Jones. At least not initially. It's an interesting idea!

I can see her doing the number and tearing into it, as you say. I can see her as intimidating, too. I'm struggling a bit with seeing her as Guido's "show biz" film producer though. She's a bit too underground to fit the job... but not enough to rule her out.

Test her!

I initially thought of Isabella for Saraghina, but she's too beautiful even at her age, and too gentile (in a lovely way) to pull it off. Nothing about her says "wrong side of the tracks."

...the bastard.

But I love the idea of Isabella Rosselini in this film.

And I agree she would make a great "Guido's mom" if Sophia ends up not doing it for some reason.

Updated On: 8/24/07 at 01:29 PM