Opera on Broadway?- Page 2

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 10:43pm

The Met doesn't use body mics. The Kathleen Battle story is a false rumor that has persisted over the years. There was a similar story about Cecilia Bartoli, which is also untrue.

Updated On: 5/15/07 at 10:43 PM

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 3:02am

Oops, thanks for the correction Eric! You're right, it didn't premiere in an *American* Opera House until 1975 when it premiered at the Houston Grand Opera. It finally premiered at the Met in 1983. I wrote a short paper about P&B's true genre, and since I had it opened to double check the opera productions, here's a cool quote I found about the Houston Grand Opera production:

This production was based on Gershwin's original full score and did not incorporate the cuts and other changes that Gershwin himself had made before the New York premiere, but it allowed the public to take in the operatic whole as first envisioned by the composer. In this light, it became clear that Porgy and Bess was indeed an opera, not a serious piece of musical theatre.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 4:24am

No probs--yeah that's always interested me and of course now in London they've in a way switched it back to its more musical theatre type route

As for Phantom being an opera... meh I dunno. QUality questions aside ALW does refer to his sung thru shows as operas I know but...

[elmore3003]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 9:15am

Phantom is an opera for people who don't know opera; it's full of good tunes, but Webber proves once again that once he has a good tune he doesn't know what to do with it. Legitimate singing on a Broadway stage was the norm for years. Helen Falconer was a Chicago Opera soprano, Mary Ellis, the original Rose-Marie, had sung at the Met. Victor Herbert wrote for Fritzi Scheff and Emma Trentini, both coloratura sopranos who went intro musical theatre. MT singing, as it's being called in this thread, is a relatively new thing.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 6:07pm

I'm actually always on the fence with opera. I grew up listening to more classical music than pop or even musicals as a kid because I was very serious into the violin--so had exposure to opera too. But now quite often when I go to a performance of a classic--I guess years of Sondheim etc have changed my expectations but I'm often (and this is usually more true of older operas) disappointed by how many classic opera does *not* subscribe to the theory that each song should advance characterization or plot (and I'm not defending Phantom, but if we're to complain fo its awful lyrics I have to point out that most operas have no better ones--no matter whatlanguage)

Of course there are MANY operas where this isn't true, but...

[misschung]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 9:14pm

wait, why exactly is Phantom considered an opera?

and yeah, I saw Sweeney at NYCO last year, I always thought it was considered one

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 9:37pm

I assume because it's largely all sung. I'm always fascinated by where the barier is between opera nd musical...

E

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 9:48pm

A lot of people are tricked into thinking that anything that's almost completely sung through is an opera. Les Miserables is, and I certainly wouldn't consider that an opera. There are very few modern musicals that I would lump into the opera category (even The Light in the Piazza); despite quite a bit of dialogue, I'd say that Marie Christine is musically the closest to opera I've seen on Broadway in recent memory.

Updated On: 5/16/07 at 09:48 PM

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:13pm

One of the differences between opera and MT for me has been the text.

Musicals usually have LYRICS which more often than not rhyme, where as LIBRETTOS are usually more concerned with poetics.

In which case I would agree that LiTP is an opera in that sense, and POTO is not.

[stonewall2]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:20pm

You can turn this around too as the City Opera has done "Brigadoon"......

[misschung]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:20pm

Yeah, this is the first time I've ever heard POTO classified as an opera.

The whole barrier is becoming blurrier it seems - didnt we have a huge thread on this a few months ago? It seems no one can get the answer right, and probably doesn't have to. But I agree that its an interesting debate

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:31pm

StoneWall2 said: You can turn this around too as the City Opera has done "Brigadoon"......

and "Wonderful Town"
and "The Most Happy Fella"
and "South Pacific"

to name a few

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:33pm

It is part of City Opera's mission to present one musical theatre piece every season.

[misschung]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:35pm

Yeah, it is. But before that I always thought Sweeney was one of those that could be lumped into either category.

who knows!

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:38pm

I would consider Sweeney Todd an operetta. A Little Night Music, too.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:41pm

I think drawing a line in the sand to divide the two is fairly silly, I mean where does it get you?
Its all music theater. I had a professor once who refused to call Carmen or Les Contes d'Hoffman anything other than operettas, which I thought was odd at the time.

[misschung]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:47pm

Carmen? I'm suprised - why was that? I could see hesitation towards something like Dialogues of the Carmelites, maybe.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:49pm

Why Dialogue? Thats TOTALLY an opera.

I think he had a problem with Carmen because it originally had spoken dialogue, and Hoffman is rather episodic, but I think its fairly silly anyway

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:51pm

I don't know what your professor is talking about. Carmen and Contes are definitely operas.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 10:54pm

AC: My professor was (RIP) a very respected musicologist, he obviously had his reasons, but my point was the the distinction is silly, it's just a name. It's all music theater and to start drawing stringent divisions is really pointless.

[misschung]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 11:03pm

just to flip the original question - do you think opera houses will ever start presenting musicals?

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 11:22pm

Well, as has been said, NYC Opera presents many musicals, Most happy Fella, ALNM, etc.

And a few years ago Dicapo Opera did Passion and other opera houses have done Passion as well as Sweeney Todd.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 11:22pm

Unless I've missed it, no one has referred to the comments that Stephen Sondhiem made when asked what the difference between an opera and a musical is. I won't quote it but, instead, make someone work for by looking it up and getting back to the board

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 11:35pm

I know what he said, When its in an opera house, its an opera and in a theater its a musical.

What of it? Since when was he a musicologist, or a cultural antropologist, which is really the realm that this discussion is in, since it has to do with the conception of each and how people view them.

Just because he writes pieces that both disciplines produce doesn't make him an expert on the subject

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/16/07 at 11:54pm

Fen haven't we convinved you yet that Sondheim is a God among men even if he did break your friend's left kneecap or whatever?

(teasing )

Actually I thought he said something besides just the venue--I think it may have had to do with lyrics sharing importance in musicals and not in opera, etc (and maybe dialogue) but I can't remember... When he was meant to write a Sunset Blvd very briefly in the 70s he did say something about how he didn't wanna write it cuz it couldn't be a musical--the subject had to be an opera (though he also said it's awfull hard to write a story about a woman who lost her career because of her voice)

Light in the Piazza is more than half dialogue... That would be why I wouldnt' classify it but ya it is all relative. However I think there's some reason to have the definitions--there definetly are people who vastly prefer OPERA to musicals and vice versa and there's a reason for that (and it's not just snobbism or reverse snobbism )