Overly "self-aware" songs & characters- Page 2

[newintown]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 1:54pm

Wow, that's a reaction. No one called him a god, but he is the best musical theatre writer there's been for quite some time. There may be those who prefer something else, but you can't get around the fact that his skill and talent changed the whole way everyone thinks about musical theatre.

About two other things - Sondheim was brought in to WEST SIDE STORY rather late in the game; originally, Bernstein wanted to do the lyrics himself. Many of the lyrics in the show were Bernstein's; it wasn't until just before the NY opening that Bernstein agreed to give Sondheim solo credit. Sondheim makes it clear (without being blunt) that "I Feel Pretty" is more Bernstein's work than his - that's why he criticizes it so vehemently.

As far as his work originating with others, like Lapine - well, you can believe anything, but with Sondheim the case is that he begins the score, then brings in a book writer to help with the finer points.

But, for me, I find Sondheim's writing to be the most artful expression of character and story there is; Maury Yeston running second. Not only can they turn a phrase that surprises with insight - they do it while following perfect structure and form. I love that kind of art.

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 2:15pm

I have no problem at all with the "you" Sondheim songs. Second person narrative has been very popular in literature for the past 50 years, and is still a widely used technique.

In Into the Woods, I assume Red Riding Hood, Jack and Cinderella represent the evolution of a child to adulthood, so the structure makes a lot of sense.

I Know Things Now is sung in the first person, confident and declaimed. Red Riding Hood is sure of herself not just because she's a pushy little kid, but because she's young. Then Jack sings Giants in the sky, with a bit more sophisticated second person grappling with what's just happened to him.

And On the Steps of the Palace is another second person account, with Cinderella making sense of her situation. Each characters song gets progressively complicated as more adult and complex considerations begin to apply to their dilemma.

I also think it's important that Cinderella doesn't merely show off her self-awareness, she grapples with what the right and wrong decisions she should make throughout and wakes up to her solution only during the last lines of the song.

[sweeneytodd2]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 11:27pm

I agree that Sondheim is guilty of this, with the exception of Sweeney Todd. That's what makes it such a successful work of drama. Every song, every lyric, is specifically tied to action. However, it may be one of his less "emotionally deep shows", so I suppose there are trade offs.

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 1:45pm

jpbran, I don't think you get that Fiyero is trying to teach his philosophy to the other students, so he sings about being shallow to them because he wants them to learn to be shallow because as he see it as the best thing to do and all there is. I mean, he may see it as teaching to just have fun in life.

best12bars, sometimes when they say "you", they mean themselves. Cinderella is telling herself to run home, to avoid the collision. Yes, her mind is talking to herself. Everyone does it.

And as has been touchd on, Into the Woods is supposed to be kind of peachy and moralizing because it's supposed to be a fairy tale that teaches morals to kids...as well as adults. If you thnk its sounds like teachers talking in a classroom...tell me, are children not associated with teachers and classrooms?