People assuming the original is obviously the best...- Page 2

[shpants]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 3:47pm

Geez, tough crowd lol

I should have been more clear about mentioning that it was Broadway that I meant. Thank you for clearing that up, mister matt! :)

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 4:13pm

Not that I have anything against the amazing Stephanie J. Block (if we're talking originals, here). She comes in at a VERY close second. And if you want to talk about mannered Elphabas, Phyllis, Gasteyer takes the award in that category.

[DefyGravity777]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 5:13pm

IMO Stephanie J. Block and Julie Reiber are waaaaaaay better than Idina. As are all the other Elphaba's I have ever seen. Just because the person originated the role and may have won a Tony because of it doesn't mean that they are the best. But that's just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like.

[Patash]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 11:11pm

I have to say that I saw Wicked very early on. At the time I really didn't know who Idina was -- except that she was in Rent (I didn't see her in it). Kristen blew me away, and I thought she so overpowered Idina, that later on I was shocked by the Tony win. Perhaps I saw her on a really off night, because she simply had no "zip" at all -- although her songs were amazing. I walked out feeling the show was all about Glinda. Then I saw Wicked in Chicago. I don't even know who was playing Elphaba and it didn't make any difference, because she was ill and her understudy went on. Nevertheless, I was wowed by her performance and suddenly I realized how great the role was -- it grabbed me much more than when I saw Idina play it. Some might argue that it was Kristen who played it too strong -- but in Chicago I somehow felt the relationship between the two so much more. They were far better "matched". And I honestly have to say that I liked the girl in Chicago playing Elphaba (whoever she was) better than Idina in the role.
Updated On: 10/31/08 at 11:11 PM

[legally_popular]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 1:39am

Re: toanythingtaboo 2 - The first experience seeing a show is always memorable, but I do not always consider it the best simply because it was my first time. I’ve seen Gypsy 3 times, for instance, and the first time wasn’t the best. I mean, it’s Gypsy, meaning each time was absolutely amazing, but I would have to say that the 2nd time I saw it was the best performance I’ve seen out of the three. Same thing with Wicked – my first time, though pretty exciting because it was my first time, was not the best nor my favorite performance by far. Thus, the first time seeing a show certainly is special but that doesn’t make it the best.

And just because replacements didn’t originate the role, doesn’t mean they are just a copy of the originator. Each actor/actress (hopefully) dissects the character on their own, sometimes adds a bit of themselves to the part, and makes the role their own. I’ve seen Elphabas played in different ways, like more angry, more powerful, whatever. They’re not just trying to copy Idina. Not everyone gets to develop the character in workshops from scratch, but they still play the character in their own way.

With the original pair in Wicked, Kristin Chenoweth definitely stole the show for me. This wasn’t because Glinda was the more hammy role, it was because of Kristin’s talent. I was much more of an “Elphaba person,” so I was kinda surprised at liking the Glinda more. I was kind of disappointed with Idina. One of the few parts I enjoyed her was during “I’m Not That Girl” and I think that’s only because she wasn’t belting/screaming up a storm. But that’s just my opinion… sorry… anyway…

There’s no real way to measure who is the best, it’s all a matter of opinion. For me, I determine who I like better based on how I liked their performance, it doesn’t really matter who originated the role.


Wow, sorry I wrote an essay, lol.

[kissynose]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 9:20am

I think the original cast is always the greatest. I've seen many shows for the last 20 years and very few performances ever surpase the originals. Maybe the first understudy is great like Norbet Leo Butz as Roger in rent, but they usually have watched the show evolve thus they know the hows and whys of the staging.

I also agree that who you first see in the role will always be your favorite because you compare everyone else to your first impression.

Only show to me that was great no matter who played the part was Hedwig and the Angry Inch (even I saw something in Ally Sheedy's less then great performance)

[Weez]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 10:44am

The original cast isn't always the greatest. They may have many things skewed in their favour (rehearsal time, having the show shape itself around them), but they're not always best. Do you not remember how well received Jonathan Pryce was in 'Dirty Rotten Scoundrels'? Lea Salonga in 'Les Miserables'? And God bless James Carpinello and I hope he's all healed up and moving on to greater things, but I'm pretty sure many were pleased to see Cheyenne in 'Xanadu'.

And who you first see in a role will not always be your favourite either. If they're excellent, they may leave an indelible impression, but that doesn't mean you won't one day see someone who is more excellent and surpasses your previously held opinions.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 10:49am

IMO Stephanie J. Block and Julie Reiber are waaaaaaay better than Idina. As are all the other Elphaba's I have ever seen. Just because the person originated the role and may have won a Tony because of it doesn't mean that they are the best. But that's just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like.

You never saw Idina. I don't think you can judge someone you haven't seen LIVE.

[Drunk Chita Rivera]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 11:13am

I have not seen Idina in Wicked, but I have heard her on the CD. I saw Julia Murney and Victoria Matlock. I love Idina and I will always respect her but she isn't going to always be the best. Also Eden Espinosa was a brilliant Maureen in Rent and I think she was better than Idina (I also did not see her live but...)

[Timmer]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 11:26am

Part of it is that we have all heard about these great performers from bygone days and we assume that the current crop just isn't as good -- the same thing happens in sports (i.e., nobody can ever be as good as Babe Ruth) -- and part of it is that the original (in most cases) sort of defines the role in a way that no one else can really put too much of a stamp on it because the audience expects the role to be done largely as defined.

And sometimes it's because the original simply was better. For example, I thought Barbara Walsh was very good in teh revival of "Company" but it's Stritch's part. Her "Everybody rise" got half the house standing. (OTOH, Esparza was probably a better Bobby than Dean Jones or Larry Kert.)

[Timmer]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 11:32am

"I definitely wouldn't say that people always assume that the original is the best, they just associate more with the original cast (basically just reiterating many peoples points.)"

Cast albums may have something to do with that, too. When you go to play the show, the OBC is who you hear. Subconsciously, that becomes the "right" way to do it.

Updated On: 11/1/08 at 11:32 AM

[toanythingtaboo 2]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 2:09pm

^^ very good point.

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 2:56pm

Having seen wicked 10 times, I can say that Idina Menzel did bring something special to the role, but was out-acted and out-sung time and time again.

People who say "Well, if [performer] is so bad, how come [performer] won a TONY and [other performer] didn't" bug the christ out of me. Its like they don't understand that whoever is lucky enough to originate has the one and only shot at a Tony. I have seen SO MANY replacements who I thought could have totally blown away the Tony competition in the category had they originated.

Gary Mauer in Phantom, Julia Murney in Wicked, Jeanette Bayardelle in Color Purple come to mind right now.

[DefyGravity777]

Posted: 11/1/08 at 4:41pm

"You never saw Idina. I don't think you can judge someone you haven't seen LIVE."

No I haven't but I definately have "seen" and "heard" enough of her throughout the past 4 yrs to base my opinion on that.

I also though Eden Espinosa was a much better Maureen also.