People assuming the original is obviously the best...

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People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:00pm

I can't stand that! One performer always comes to mind...
IDINA MENZEL. Once on a Stephanie J. Block video "oh, she's good, but Idina is my favorite, obv, I guess". Another video... "Idina is the best Elphaba, no question about it." This next one makes me laugh "Idina won the TONY, she's the ultimate Elphaba!".

Now of course Idina Menzel is not the only performer this happens with, and I have nothing against her (I love her solo work.) But, I just find this so annoying.

Anyone else have thoughts on this, not Idina but the whole assuming the original has to be the best?

2008: Feb. 18- Rent, Feb. 19- Curtains, April 18- Xanadu, April 22- Wicked, April 26- Legally Blonde, May 31- Wicked, June 13- The Little Mermaid, June 28- Wicked and Young Frankenstein, July 2- The Little Mermaid, July 6- A Chorus Line and Legally Blonde, August 16- Xanadu, September 13- Legally Blonde and 13, September 28- Xanadu and Spring Awakening, Oct. 12-GYPSY and [title of show], Oct. 19- Hairspray & Legally Blonde, Nov. 9- Wicked and 13, Dec. 14-13, Dec. 26- Billy Elliot, 2009: Jan 1- Shrek, Jan 2- 13 and Wicked, Jan 4- 13, Feb 17- In The Heights, Feb 19- Billy Elliot, Feb 22- Sweeney Todd (tour), March 28- Mary Poppins, April 4- Mamma Mia!, April 15- Jersey Boys (on tour), April 25- next to normal & 9 to 5 May 1- Billy Elliot, May 3- Spelling Bee (tour), May 8- Chicago, May 21- Wicked, June 6- Everyday Rapture, June 23- The Wiz, June 25- Hair July 15- Shrek, August 9- Wicked, September 7- Rock of Ages, October 11- Next To Normal, October 23- The Marvelous Wonderettes, November 7- Ragtime November 29- Dreamgirls, December 25- Billy Elliot, December 30- Finian's Rainbow, 2010: January 9- Bye Bye Birdie, January 16- Memphis February 17- The Phantom of The Opera, February 18- God of Carnage, March 7- Billy Elliot, March 31- American Idiot

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:05pm

No.

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:08pm

agree completely..i used to be like this with rent of course but that was a few years ago i saw the movie..loved it..and then saw the show with a terrible cast and thought wow the obc must have been so much better...i went back this year a few times to see the final cast and i thought they were better then the originals i loved them. but yea happens with idina alot shes good but there ARE a few that beat her out

what if susan blackwell hung out with boq, trekkie monster, the SOL soloist#2, and the piragua guy on a daily basis?

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:09pm

what if susan blackwell hung out with boq, trekkie monster, the SOL soloist#2, and the piragua guy on a daily basis?

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:18pm

Having seen every Broadway Elphaba, and many of the standbys, Menzel is far and away the best Elphaba.

But, that wasn't your point. I agree that people usually assume the original is the best. In many cases, it's true, but not always. On the one hand, with Wicked, for example, I've yet to see a better pair of witches than Menzel and Chenoweth. But, on the other hand, with the role of Elle Woods, I saw two Elles that were much better than Laura Bell Bundy (Haven Burton and Bailey).

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:24pm

I like Bailey's Elle, but it was in no way better than LBB. Haven't seen anyone else to judge.

I thought Jennifer Lewis was a better Motermouth than the original. Eden Espinosa was the better Maureen, Diana Degarmo was a better Penny.

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:25pm

I also think that when there is a show you connect to a great deal, the FIRST time you see it is the best. It attacks all of your senses. Everything else is just a comparison.

Other than that, however, it's just inexperience and lack of judgement.

But it IS annoying. I don't mind an honest opinion...if it has any actual substance behind it. Like ACTUALLY having seen Indina AND another Elphaba!

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:30pm

I'm happy I'm not the only one. I've seen WICKED three times, the best by far was with Stephanie and Kendra, and that wasn't my first time seeing the show. Stephanie is my favorite Elphaba and Annaleigh is my favorite Glinda, but lets not get into a whole other thread...

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:32pm

Idina WAS a better Elphaba than Stephanie. Stephanie was too mannered for my taste.

#10

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:34pm

I personally think they deserve the respect and admiration though, especially in an original musical. Often they have the most time to connect with the part, work with the composers and director(s)...They usually set the stage for their replacements. While I don't agree that originals are always the best, I do agree that it is all opinion based. Original's have a tough tough job in bringing in an audience and gathering a fan base. I don't know. In the end, Idina is still my favorite. To me, she was so raw. I loved that about her. But again, it is all opinion. I don't think anyone can say "best" unless they have seen them all.

#11

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:35pm

I really like the Tracy I saw in Hairspray the first time I saw it in Chicago. I think she was Hawaiin.

#12

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:36pm

I absolutely agree. It's silly to give someone the title of "best [character]" by default simply because they originated the role. By that way of thinking, for example, I could enjoy Andrew Samonsky's Jon in a regional "tick tick BOOM" with all my heart, but Raul Esparza (who I've never seen play Jon) would still be the best IMO. It just doesn't work that way.

#13

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 11:43pm

I had a chat with a friend once about "Sweeney Todd," and the discussion turned to our favorite performers we'd seen/heard in the show. As much as I love the original cast album, and Lansbury's performance on the video, my favorites are Michael Cerveris (heard) and Judy Kaye (seen). I wish I could have seen them together, but alas... However, my friend loves Michael Cerveris and...Helena Bonham Carter. Sure, I loved her in the movie, but to call her the best Mrs. Lovett? No.

-- SDG

#14

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 11:49pm

My favorite Cunegonde on CD is Alex Kelly from the 1999 London Cast, closely followed by Barbara Cook (the original). However, I prefer the entire original casts of Into the Woods and SITPWG (in my opinion, two of the best original casts) to the revivals and other professional productions I have seen. It all depends on taste and standard the original set.

"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.

#15

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/30/08 at 11:53pm

To me, it’s all a matter of opinion. One person will say one actor’s the best, one will say another actor’s the best. Everyone has different tastes and different reasons for liking one performer over another. And no one is right or wrong. If I think Stephanie is the best Elphaba while my friend thinks Idina is the best Elphaba, that’s fine.

But Idina should not be considered the best only because she was the original. If someone likes Idina for her voice, performance, etc., that’s ok. I just hate when people automatically say that Idina is the best only for the sole reason that she originated the role, ya know?

Edit – I just read what sroderick2 wrote and that’s exactly the point I was trying to get across:
“It's silly to give someone the title of "best [character]" by default simply because they originated the role."

Updated On: 10/30/08 at 11:53 PM

#16

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 12:34am

I think another example is Colm Wilkinson...personally I think there have been better Valjeans, but most people insist that nobody can compare to Colm and aren't open to the idea of other people being better than Colm...

#17

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 1:08am

Yeah, it annoys me when people say "Idina is the best! She's the one who won the Tony!"
Anyone who originated the role and played it well would have won the Tony.

#18

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 2:04am

>I saw two Elles that were much better than Laura Bell Bundy (Haven Burton andBailey).

Bailey might have gotten better near the end, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't say she was better than LBB at all. I just felt she was inexperienced.

> "my favorites are Michael Cerveris (heard) and Judy Kaye (seen). I wish I could have seen them together, but alas... However, my friend loves Michael Cerveris and...Helena Bonham Carter. Sure, I loved her in the movie, but to call her the best Mrs. Lovett? No."

IMO, HBC is a better Lovett than Cerveris is Sweeney!

Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.

#19

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 2:34am

"Anyone who originated the role and played it well would have won the Tony."

Sure. Because there was NO competition in that category that year. And Idina's win wasn't an upset. Sure.

-Benjamin
--http://www.benjaminadgate.com/

Updated On: 10/31/08 at 02:34 AM

#20

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 5:53am

There was plenty of competition, but personally, I reckon Elphaba was a critic-proof role. Anyone who played her with enough competency would have walked off with the award. Elphaba is to contemporary Broadway what Bottom is to the complete works of Shakespeare. As long as you're better than a mere "adequate", people will love you. Which makes the few who don't feel very sad.

Notes from the Earlham Street Gutter

#21

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 8:12am

It does annoy me slightly when people say that songs on London recordings of Broadway shows (or vice-versa) are played too fast/slow - they may be faster or slower than the original recording, but that doesn't come across in the mild hostility often shown to anything that is different from the original (including performers)...

#22

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 9:09am

Here's what I think the problem is...

Often times the original IS the best - not because they're necessairily the best actors to play the roles, but because they HAVE REHEARSAL! Think about it, original casts have at LEAST a couple months rehearsal with the production team. Things are tailored to their strengths, and they don't just get the staging, they know WHY things are staged that way - what every gesture, etc. means.

Replacements have maybe a week or two with the dance captain to basically learn their marks. On opening night they're just trying not to get killed by the scenery. There's no chance to craft the same kind of performance the original cast had - that's why long running shows look like a copy of a copy of a copy of the original sometimes...because they literally are!

Madame Morrible: "So you take the chicken, now it must be a white chicken. The corpse can be any color. And that is the spell for lost luggage!" - The Yellow Brick Road Not Taken

#23

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 2:56pm

I think there's a lot of truth in falling for the first Elphaba (for instance) you see and them often being your favourite, because you connect that first experience with that actress.

Originals aren't always the best, but I'd say most people would find their first experience of the show (original cast or not) to be the best.

#24

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 3:08pm

I definitely wouldn't say that people always assume that the original is the best, they just associate more with the original cast (basically just reiterating many peoples points.)

When I think of Elphaba, I just automatically think of Idina Menzel..because she was the orginator. Obviously, people will have different opinions about whether she was the best or not. I don't think it's always about best - I think it's often about first.

"You see, I told you so! There's lots of things I know. 'Ponine, she knows her way around."

#25

re: People assuming the original is obviously the best...

Posted: 10/31/08 at 3:40pm

Replacements have maybe a week or two with the dance captain to basically learn their marks. On opening night they're just trying not to get killed by the scenery.

Unless you're a replacement in the Chicago cast of Naked Boys Singing in which you are doing all of that in less rehearsal time and you meet the cast 30 minutes before you are all naked on stage. AND you were told you were hired as an "understudy", so even though you are performing every night and have your own numbers, you are getting paid less than the rest of the cast.

But I digress...

When I think of Elphaba, I just automatically think of Idina Menzel..because she was the orginator.

Actually, she wasn't. But she was the original Broadway Elphaba and still my personal favorite (and Chenoweth is my favorite Glinda). And out of the multitude of Rent casts I have witnessed over the years, noone has ever surpassed the originals, in my opinion. There were a few that came close, but the show was built around that cast and if you saw them, you could tell.

Sometimes the originals actually are the best. Sometimes not. I remember many felt Reba in Annie Get Your Gun was superior to Bernadette's Tony-winning performance. And I thought Lea Salonga was possibly the best Fantine I've seen in Les Miserables.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

Updated On: 10/31/08 at 03:40 PM

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