Question: "Stay With Me"

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 6:50pm

"Princes wait there in the world, it's true
Princes yes, but wolves and humans too"

Why doesn't the Witch substitute "humans" with "giants"? Isn't she being redundant, since a prince is also a human? In the end, it was a giant that killed Rapunzel. Just something to ponder.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 7:05pm

I never question the greatness that is Sondheim.










LOL just kidding! no I think it's humans because humans and princes are different. A prince, at least in this world, is seen as charming, perfect, etc, but I think it's relating that Princes are not perfect, and everyone is human...although, as I'm saying this I see what you mean by the redundance....



I'll go back to plan A: Don't Question Sondheim.

LOL

[jasonf]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 7:28pm

It's a good question - one I've wondered myself. Thinking about it, though, the word "giants" just doesn't sound as good. I think the hard "i" doesn't scan in the rest of the song.

"Princes wait there in the world it's true
Princes yes, but wolves and giants too"

From a purely aesthetic stance, humans sounds better there than giants does.

Yes, it's a bit redundant, but as Stephanie said, princes AREN'T human in this world - they are above the rest of humanity, so don't get included in the broader sense.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 7:35pm

It's not redundant at all. Princes are to be regarded as a seperate species in stories, they aren't human. They're above and beyond human. It's a classification. And conceivably the witch regards humans as creatures to be avoided as well, judging from the text. She's saying that there are things such as princes (unrealistic constructs set there by the forces that be to save distressed maidens from the chains that bind them) in the world, yes, but there are also horrible things waiting to eat you or hurt you or ruin you, such as wolves and damn it all, other human beings.

It's very Sondheim-y. "Yes, there are princes out there somewhere in the world, BUT..."

Also, at that point in the story I don't know why the characters would be so concerned about giants besides Jack.

[ashley0139]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 7:42pm

Oh the brilliance that is Sondheim.

On a side note, the other day, someone tried to convince me that Andrew Lloyd Webber was a god and a genius and that Sondheim was stupid. I almost died right then and there.

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 8:01pm

I always thought it meant like "Good, handsome/pretty people are out there, but there are eveil, ugly people out in the world as well.

Since Rapunzel is enamored of the Prince, she uses him as an example. Yes, he is there, but there are also bad people, too...

It is more emphasis than repetition.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 8:06pm

I don't think the witch would make that sort of correlation. Judging from "Last Midnight" she obviously realizes that appearances do not necessarily deem whether a person is good or evil, and that good and evil are subjective terms anyway. So she hides herself away as so often the voice of reason is ostracized by others. "I'm not good, I'm not bad, I'm just right. I'm the witch. You're the world."

Ashley what'd your friend say? I have to know.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 8:09pm

Stay on topic, ashley. Let's not turn this into another "Andrew Lloyd Webber Sucks" thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed so far!

Updated On: 6/30/06 at 08:09 PM

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 8:12pm

Can she tell us why her friend thinks Sondheim is stupid then?

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 8:15pm

Roninjoey, I posted about the same time you did so I was unaware of your question for ashley. I just don't want this to turn into a Sondheim vs. Llowyd Webber free-for-all.

[ashley0139]

Posted: 6/30/06 at 8:43pm

Did not mean to be off-topic, just had to mention it. I don't think ALW sucks (I enjoy some of his music), I just don't think he compares to Sondheim. But I do happen to think that lyric is brilliant. And any lyric that is so complex that either way makes sense but his way is perfect is just brilliant.

Roninjoey- I will pm you.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 1:38am

ashley, i'm sorry a person who thinks that way ever had to come in contact with you....seriously..that's just sad. I'm not being sarcastic.

and my own side note, I may be playing Rapunzel next year..if all things go my way :)

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 2:01am

There were some good answers to the question here, which led to my discovery of a different point. The fact that the witch does not mention giants as something Rapunzel needs to watch out for, when a giant ends up killing her in Act 2, adds to the witch's flaws as a mother.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 7/2/06 at 7:13am

That's an interesting point, GovernorSlaton.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/2/06 at 9:57am

She wouldn't mention giants at this point. Giants haven't come into play yet in the story, and in fact, when she's directly confronted with one she doesn't even recognize that it is a giant until The Baker mentions it as a possibility for who trampled her garden.