Question about The Frogs

[CJWesselman]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 5:52pm

I just gave this CD another listen recently and found it's stayed in my CD Player for quite some time. Most of the music is pretty good and has some pretty funny tongue-in-cheek moments. Why was it that this show was such an utter disaster? Was the book really rotten or something else or was it just a case of bad timing?

Updated On: 7/2/05 at 05:52 PM

[Glebb]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 5:58pm

I don't know but I could kick myself for not purchasing a t-shirt.

[timote316]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:00pm

Well, it was only a limited run, so don't let the number of performances fool you.

[SamIAm]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:01pm

Utter disaster? That's a bit harsh. It had mixed reviews, but the subscriptions were sold out and on the occasions I saw it, I found the audience enjoyed it immensely.

It was scheduled to be a limited run from the start and the audience was always full when I was there. Critics and SOME audience members expected it to be a totally different show (no...Lane was not playing Max B in a toga) and the fact that they started with an existing Greek play and revised a previous version caused considerable constraint. I thought Sondheim's music was good and Lane's writing was fine. I hope it gets revived some day.

[CJWesselman]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:01pm

**Update**
T-shirt? Why, is it a collector's item because the show didn't run for long? Maybe I should put my Urban Cowboy coffee mug on EBay!

Margo, I don't think I was aware it was on a limited run....well, I prolly knew at some point, but I've long frogotten....hehe...that was actually a typo but now I'm keeping it cause it works.

Do you know if the rights for the show are released? It seems like a fun show to do.

Updated On: 7/2/05 at 06:01 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:03pm

I never quite understood they level of hatred so many had against this show. I thought the book was funny and well-structured with an interesting story and some clever topical references. Sondheim's score was extremely tuneful and contained several outstanding songs (it certainly deserved a nod for Best Score). The performances were all wonderful. I even liked Stroman's direction.

Was it a case of people expecting some major masterpiece from Sondheim rather than just a fun and entertaining show?

Updated On: 7/2/05 at 06:03 PM

[Glebb]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:04pm

No, I saw and liked them when I was buying my Light In The Piazza shirt. I was too cheap to buy two shirts, but now want The Frogs t-shirt too. I do have the Anything Goes bath towel, still!

UPDATE: CJ, you changed your post.

Updated On: 7/2/05 at 06:04 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:07pm

It wasn't a bomb show AT ALL. It was always a limited engagement (as are all Lincoln Center shows) and it played out its run, got some decent reviews along the way and did well at the box office (attendance was in the 80s or 90s nearly every week).

[CJWesselman]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:08pm

See, that was sort of my question going into the CD. I remember when I started hearing things about Lane rewriting the show and they were going to mount it, people were saying how this was, like, Sondheim's "lost show" and that it was supposed to be something amazing that somehow got put aside after the Yale Swimming Pool performance. I agree that it's marvelously tuneful and definatley a fun show. I think some of Sondheim's best stuff is his patter-like songs that some from the comedies (Forum, Woods, Frogs.) They definatley contain some of the best lyrics. He's so witty! :)

[QuiteSo]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:14pm

The main reason why it's considered a flop is because of some of the reviews it got - namely because of Lane's book. I enjoyed the show, but I found myself agreeing with some of the critics - to be perfectly honest, I felt like the show's message was being thrown in the faces of the audience at any moment possible. The music was great (can't go wrong with that Sondheim, heh), the performances were phenomenal (especially Roger Bart...who, to be blunt, was the force that drove me to buy tickets, I love that man), it was the book that was the let-down. The show had great promise, but the book squashed it. Again, I had a great time - it was a fun experience. Not the best show I've seen, but it was enjoyable regardless.

I feel like I'm repeating posts here...

[Mythus]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:26pm

I disagree...sort of. Yes, the book was shoving an opinion in your face, but at the end Dionysus asks the audience not to agree with him. They're shoving the opinion in your face to get you riled up (and perhaps form a different opinion), not to get you to agree with it.

[Broadway_Bound_Star]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:31pm

Has anyone seen the show when it was in NY? if so, how was the girl who played Adrianne?

[GirlforTartaglia]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:34pm

The entire cast was amazing. I really enjoyed the show. I was disappointed not to see Chris Kattan, but Roger Bart and Nathan Lane were great!! The girl playing Adrianne was great too!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:35pm

You mean Ariadne? Kathy Voytko played it at Lincoln Center and was fine, but it's not much of a role. She has maybe two short scenes that were mostly dialogue -- not the kind of role you can make much of an impression doing.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 6:36pm

Kathy Voytko (sp) who played Ariadne was fine, but had relatively little to do. But she went soon afterwards into a regional production of EVITA.

The big problem with the show for most of its critics was that Nathan wasn't Max Bialystock in a toga.

Bart was excellent as always (saving the day as an 11th hour replacement for the lamentable Chris Kattan), but my favorites among the suppoorting cast were John Byner and Peter Bartlett, who IMHO was robbed of a Tony nomination.

[Mamie]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:15pm

Do a search on this board under "Kattan" and you'll read all about it. He absolutely did NOT belong on a stage. Roger Bart was his usual wonderful self - as all the players were. I thoroughly enjoyed it and went a couple of times. The CD is one of my favorites.

[Mythus]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:19pm

Anyone else notice how Ariadne was described as having "hair the color of the sun", and then when we see her she has dark hair? Sorry, random.

[Broadway_Bound_Star]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:22pm

Well, I'm a HUGE fan of Kathy and I was just wondering what kind of part that was because I have never heard the recording. But seeing her in Evita and then knowing that she didn't have a song/bigger part is suprising.

[mandy2loveRB]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:23pm

I thought...the book was not that bad, the performance was great (except for Kattan), songs were brilliant...just felt like everyone's really fed up with Lane at that time...or at least, I was. He is a great actor but not that pleasant person. Yet, don't get me wrong. I loved The Frogs. Saw 6 times. Roger Bart was not the only reason (well...). I loved that show.

[QuiteSo]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:38pm

Mythus - yeah. I always find myself thinking about the book and then I remember the end. I loved the end, I thought it tied the show together quite well. I just felt that the majority of the writing was biased and somewhat unbalanced. Almost to the point of "Think for yourselves, make your own choices...just don't support the Bush administration". I do give Nathan credit, though, as it was his first attempt at writing a show's book. In that respect it was a great effort.

I still quite enjoyed the show, as I said.

Though Roger was what drove me to buy my ticket, I had been intrigued about the show (Nathan Lane, Susan Stroman, and Sondheim - can't go wrong, right?). He wasn't the only reason I saw it, but he was a huge part of my decision to do so.

Off-topic: Mandy, where's the picture for your avatar from? It looks really familiar.

[Mythus]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:42pm

I PMed about Mandy's icon, Mary. XD I want to know. I've never seen that picture before - and that's weird, because I have pretty much every single picture of him in existance.

[QuiteSo]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:47pm

Lia, you rock (I never know whether to call you Mythus or Lia over here...*shrug* one of my neurotic tendencies). It looks so familiar...I swear to God I've seen it somewhere. I thought I had saved it...and when I looked through my pictures...it wasn't THERE! I was shocked XP!!

[SamIAm]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 7:49pm

Ariadne was played by Kathy Voytko who is currently on the road doing Evita. She was also in the Producers. She had a VERY small role.

As for the book being good or not good...political or too political...you have to remember that they started with the constraint of the original Greek play and if you think THIS was political, then you should see REAL old Greek theater where they put on masks and make fun of politicians, rich people in the city, etc. If the show was misunderstood or if people expected something different I really blame THEM for not researching what they were going to see. It was not meant to be Forum or even a classic Sondheim show...it was meant to be what it was and because people didn't understand what it was meant to be...some were disappointed.

As for Mandy2B's comments, I'm not sure what his/her like or dislike of Lane as a person has to do with the original question which was 'how was this show?'. Either you liked the show or you didn't. No one asked you to marry the actors.

As with most shows, this one had all kinds of things going on behind the scenes that the public does not see. This show in particular started with Sondheim/Stroman convincing Lane to take on the lead when he didn't want to (since he was the writer and knew he'd have to rewrite)...so there was THAT pressure and then Kattan didn't work out and they replaced him at the last minute. AND Sondheim is well known for penning songs at the last minute and replacing songs etc.

Against that backdrop, I would say that the show did very well representing itself and that Lane did a creditable job of writing his first book. Would like to see him do more.

[QuiteSo]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 8:19pm

SamIAm, you made great points as always. I love when you post. *fluffy post with no point*

Updated On: 7/2/05 at 08:19 PM

[ProducersFan]

Posted: 7/2/05 at 8:27pm

I loved the show and the CD remains one of my favorites. I was so glad the score was recorded to live on after the show closed. Nathan, Roger and everyone in the cast were all so great (and Roger's costume - adorable!).

My post really has no point as I agree with everything that's been posted before. Yay Frogs!

Oh, and I have the shirt but it's such a livid lime green that I have never worn it. I also have the mug, magnet, pen and window card.

~Jessica