#26
Posted: 12/2/07 at 9:47pm
I think it's nice that it holds a place in your heart but you can still admit that it's bad, cause it is a stinker!
"RENT" the movie..here we go again — Page 2
#27
Posted: 12/2/07 at 10:09pm
Yeah... it's kind of a guilty pleasure.
Does the sun really rise in the east?
Does the earth really spin around the sun?
What's it matter in the least?
What's real to me ain't real to everyone.
Does the earth really spin around the sun?
What's it matter in the least?
What's real to me ain't real to everyone.
#28
Posted: 12/2/07 at 11:08pm
My favorite part is when Anthony Rapp gets up from the floor with a dazed look at the end of Tango Maureen, and he shakes his repeatedly to let the 3 year olds watching know that it was all a dream.
And then there was Adam's Jon Bon Jovi cheesy 80s moment in the car scene in New Mexico.
And then there was Adam's Jon Bon Jovi cheesy 80s moment in the car scene in New Mexico.
Love Changes NOTHING
#29
Posted: 12/2/07 at 11:40pm
I considered watching it today, simply out of nostalgia, but I decided against it.
Did this movie completely derail Columbus's career?
Did this movie completely derail Columbus's career?
#30
Posted: 12/2/07 at 11:53pm
"But the worst mistake I think Columbus made was cutting the last 2/3 of Goodbye Love. They're all in the graveyard, and everyone's sad and boohoo, and then suddenly Roger's off driving in the desert? There was really no context as to why he left, and why he decided to go there. Cutting that and Halloween also dramatically reduced Mark's character. Without those scenes, he is still just the narrator. He's completely one-dimensional."
I COMPLETELY agree with this, except the part about Halloween, as beautiful as the song may be i find it completely unneccesary and a bit of a cop out as well, but I do think there is a lack in expressing Mark's character and because CC did cut the song he should have compensated in some other way.
I COMPLETELY agree with this, except the part about Halloween, as beautiful as the song may be i find it completely unneccesary and a bit of a cop out as well, but I do think there is a lack in expressing Mark's character and because CC did cut the song he should have compensated in some other way.
<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
#31
Posted: 12/3/07 at 7:52am
I'm curious as to how you think it's a cop out? Were you talking about the way CC filmed it, or just in general? I've always seen it as the first time Mark vocalizes his fears and shows his vulnerability, you get little glimpses of it here and there throughout the second act of the stage show, but he never really says how much his situation is affecting him until that point right before Goodbye Love when everything falls apart.
That being said, I think Goodbye Love is one of, if not the, most important scenes in Rent, and it is the director's responsibility to find a way to include it in the final product. Didn't CC say that he didn't include it because it would of made the conclusion anti-climatic or something along those lines? I just remember thinking his excuse was bull**** and cutting the scene only served to make the ending that much worse.
That being said, I think Goodbye Love is one of, if not the, most important scenes in Rent, and it is the director's responsibility to find a way to include it in the final product. Didn't CC say that he didn't include it because it would of made the conclusion anti-climatic or something along those lines? I just remember thinking his excuse was bull**** and cutting the scene only served to make the ending that much worse.
Does the sun really rise in the east?
Does the earth really spin around the sun?
What's it matter in the least?
What's real to me ain't real to everyone.
Does the earth really spin around the sun?
What's it matter in the least?
What's real to me ain't real to everyone.
Updated On: 12/3/07 at 07:52 AM
#32
Posted: 12/3/07 at 8:33am
I mean in general. It really is a beautiful song and the way it captivates Mark is great I just don't like the song or its purpose beyond showing another side of Mark. A lot of playwrights do this and I think it's a big flaw, he's tellig you EVERYTHING important that just happened, he shouldn't have to do that, the material should be strong enough (and I think it is, personally) to do that on its own without a summary / reminder. I just really don't like that.
<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
#33
Posted: 12/3/07 at 11:22am
I think "a lot of playwrights" know better about what constitutes a flaw versus strong material than Rent fangirl, but ok, delude yourself into thinking you know better about drama writing just because you don't like this one song...
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#34
Posted: 12/3/07 at 11:31am
Halloween is a vastly important moment for Mark's character arc. I don't know how that's a cop-out. Its purpose is to tell us something about that character. That is what musical theater writing does. You don't like the song or its purpose beyond showing another side of Mark? What purpose are you even talking about? He's not summing up the plot for you -- that's not the point; he's showing how much all of those events have broken him down.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
#35
Posted: 12/3/07 at 1:04pm
"I think "a lot of playwrights" know better about what constitutes a flaw versus strong material than Rent fangirl, but ok, delude yourself into thinking you know better about drama writing just because you don't like this one song..."
Wow, okay, way to not even read what I wrote at all. And I've taken several drama as literature courses both in highschool and college and its a topic that has come up in almost all of them.
And If I'm a fangirl then what on earth would you call the crazy 13 year olds who write "oMg I'm GuNa Marrie AdUm PaSKeLL" all over the Nederlander?
Wow, okay, way to not even read what I wrote at all. And I've taken several drama as literature courses both in highschool and college and its a topic that has come up in almost all of them.
And If I'm a fangirl then what on earth would you call the crazy 13 year olds who write "oMg I'm GuNa Marrie AdUm PaSKeLL" all over the Nederlander?
<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
#36
Posted: 12/3/07 at 1:08pm
"He's not summing up the plot for you -- that's not the point; he's showing how much all of those events have broken him down."
Why did Mimi knock on Roger's door? and Collins choose that phone booth back where Angel
set up his drums. Why did Maureen's equiptment break down?
this part is the part thats important: Why am I the witness and when I capture it
on film does it mean that its the end and I'm alone.
I just think that should be conveyed some other way, mostly by the actors doing. I mean, I don't know, it's just my opinion. And I didn't say I didn't like the song, if I recall correctly I said it was beautiful, I just don't think it's neccesary in the play if it could be compensated some other way. That's all.
Why did Mimi knock on Roger's door? and Collins choose that phone booth back where Angel
set up his drums. Why did Maureen's equiptment break down?
this part is the part thats important: Why am I the witness and when I capture it
on film does it mean that its the end and I'm alone.
I just think that should be conveyed some other way, mostly by the actors doing. I mean, I don't know, it's just my opinion. And I didn't say I didn't like the song, if I recall correctly I said it was beautiful, I just don't think it's neccesary in the play if it could be compensated some other way. That's all.
<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
#37
Posted: 12/3/07 at 1:14pm
Well, I think the fact that he prefaces what you would call the "summary" statements by asking "Why did Mimi knock on Roger's door, and Collins choose that phone booth..." signifies that he's replaying the series of almost coincidental events that acted as the cornerstone for what's happened over the last year. I would agree with you if Mark actually said something like, "This time last year, Roger and I were sitting in our apartment, we were cold, the power went out, Benny kicked us out..."
The subtleties in the way he revisits those actions and remembers is what inflates it to being more than just a reminder of what's happened.
The subtleties in the way he revisits those actions and remembers is what inflates it to being more than just a reminder of what's happened.
The morning star always gets wonderful bright the minute before it has to go --doesn't it?
#38
Posted: 12/3/07 at 1:16pm
Oy vey. Obviously he is summing up the plot, but it's not just a passive "this happened, that happened, etc." But do you honestly think that is the POINT of the song? What I meant is that that's not the REASON the song is there. Mark has to go through that to GET to the point of it. And personally, I think the way the song is structured is much more effective than having him sing some hokey "this is how I feel" thing. The emotion is implicit, rather than, "I'm really sad because all my friends are going to die, so I'm singing this song." It's much more organic. It's what he's thinking through which we see what he's feeling, as opposed to him just doing all the work for you and STATING his feelings. The way its structured DOES leave a lot up to the actor's doing, because he doesn't explicitly state something simplistic like "I am so happy," or "I'm really sad." The actor, by retelling events he's witnessed, has to convey the undertones in his tone. I guess you've never seen a one-note, boring, blasé Mark if you think everything is just there. A good actor makes it seem effortless.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
Updated On: 12/3/07 at 01:16 PM
#39
Posted: 12/3/07 at 2:07pm
Way to not even read what I wrote at all.
If you learned so much from your literature courses that you believe yourself to know better than these playwrights, you should be able to understand the difference between passive summarization and exposition.
And I refer to everyone as fangirls.
If you learned so much from your literature courses that you believe yourself to know better than these playwrights, you should be able to understand the difference between passive summarization and exposition.
And I refer to everyone as fangirls.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#40
Posted: 12/3/07 at 3:15pm
The movie wouldn't have sucked any less with "Halloween" and the entire "Good-bye Love." It would have just sucked longer.
#41
Posted: 12/3/07 at 3:45pm
The Rent movie is a horrible, horrible movie. It got stuck in that hell place between "changed and adapted too much" and "too close to the original material."
I love Rent, I'm a big huge fan of Rent, it changed my life, blah blah blah. But the movie sucked.
It felt to me like the cuts they made (the second half of Goodbye, Love being perhaps the most glaring in that "destroys the motivation for pretty much all of the events that happen afterwards" sense) were completely stupid, but there was also a lot of stuff they left in that could easily have been taken out, like, say, the original cast. It's sort of sad when I thought that some of the best moments in the film were given by the two newcomers (though Tracie does have that crazy eye thing going on).
But let's look at some of the really, really stupid things Chris Columbus did, shall we?
Someone mentioned the bit where they burned all of their songs and manuscripts and then threw it out the window. I'd like to further this by adding the following. Riding your bike while singing angrily doesn't work, and without the context of Benny backing out on their deal (given AFTER the song), all of the tenants saying "We're not gonna pay rent!" makes them sound like petulant children.
Taking out April's suicide made no sense to me, except in the sense that it PG-13izes something that really, really shouldn't have been neutered.
Another Day: Oh lordy. How about "Little girl hey, the door is that way" being sung from waaaaaaay up high in the balcony to someone who left your apartment 3 minutes ago? Or the crazy random camera action going between the two groups of people singing? Or hell, how about the fact that the apartment itself had way more stuff than I've ever had, and I'm not completely poor like they supposedly are.
I could go on, number by number, piece by piece, but why bother? There are select moments of the movie that I enjoy (Out Tonight I felt was actually quite well done) but the truth of the matter is that the movie is straight up terrible. Is it okay to like a terrible movie? Sure. I like a lot of terrible movies. But don't claim that it's "Actually quite good in parts and people are just angry that parts got changed" because it's not and that's not why people don't like it. I would have preferred MORE change.
I read the original screenplay by Stephen Chbosky from 2001, which, while it had some glaring errors (especially near the end), also had some serious balls to it in terms of changing things around and adapting the story. Dreamgirls and Chicago both changed stuff around all the time, and nobody complained because they did it in an effective, meaningful way (albeit far more effectively in Chicago's case).
Oh, and one last thing. I love Adam Pascal and I always will but he's too old to have an EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME closeup for 90% of "Your eyes", especially on the big screen.
I love Rent, I'm a big huge fan of Rent, it changed my life, blah blah blah. But the movie sucked.
It felt to me like the cuts they made (the second half of Goodbye, Love being perhaps the most glaring in that "destroys the motivation for pretty much all of the events that happen afterwards" sense) were completely stupid, but there was also a lot of stuff they left in that could easily have been taken out, like, say, the original cast. It's sort of sad when I thought that some of the best moments in the film were given by the two newcomers (though Tracie does have that crazy eye thing going on).
But let's look at some of the really, really stupid things Chris Columbus did, shall we?
Someone mentioned the bit where they burned all of their songs and manuscripts and then threw it out the window. I'd like to further this by adding the following. Riding your bike while singing angrily doesn't work, and without the context of Benny backing out on their deal (given AFTER the song), all of the tenants saying "We're not gonna pay rent!" makes them sound like petulant children.
Taking out April's suicide made no sense to me, except in the sense that it PG-13izes something that really, really shouldn't have been neutered.
Another Day: Oh lordy. How about "Little girl hey, the door is that way" being sung from waaaaaaay up high in the balcony to someone who left your apartment 3 minutes ago? Or the crazy random camera action going between the two groups of people singing? Or hell, how about the fact that the apartment itself had way more stuff than I've ever had, and I'm not completely poor like they supposedly are.
I could go on, number by number, piece by piece, but why bother? There are select moments of the movie that I enjoy (Out Tonight I felt was actually quite well done) but the truth of the matter is that the movie is straight up terrible. Is it okay to like a terrible movie? Sure. I like a lot of terrible movies. But don't claim that it's "Actually quite good in parts and people are just angry that parts got changed" because it's not and that's not why people don't like it. I would have preferred MORE change.
I read the original screenplay by Stephen Chbosky from 2001, which, while it had some glaring errors (especially near the end), also had some serious balls to it in terms of changing things around and adapting the story. Dreamgirls and Chicago both changed stuff around all the time, and nobody complained because they did it in an effective, meaningful way (albeit far more effectively in Chicago's case).
Oh, and one last thing. I love Adam Pascal and I always will but he's too old to have an EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME closeup for 90% of "Your eyes", especially on the big screen.
Updated On: 12/3/07 at 03:45 PM
#42
Posted: 12/3/07 at 3:53pm
PRS - We get it. You think it sucked. I loved it. WHY are we still beating this to death? You can continue hating the movie, and I will continue enjoying it.
Sunchips: Best Kept Secret in the chip aisle!!
#44
Posted: 12/3/07 at 4:14pm
anyone who loved the movie is clearly small minded and easily entertained.
that is all.
that is all.
#45
Posted: 12/3/07 at 5:41pm
"I read the original screenplay by Stephen Chbosky from 2001,"
how?
and although we've (thankfully) moved past the previous topic I just wanted to say that I'm a pretty open minded person and you guys definitely got me thinking about it and I suppose it's really not half bad, I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind next time I see the show and hear it again. I suppose cop-out wasn't really the right word. Anyway thanks for the insight, but really it was just an opinion nothing to get freaked out about.
how?
and although we've (thankfully) moved past the previous topic I just wanted to say that I'm a pretty open minded person and you guys definitely got me thinking about it and I suppose it's really not half bad, I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind next time I see the show and hear it again. I suppose cop-out wasn't really the right word. Anyway thanks for the insight, but really it was just an opinion nothing to get freaked out about.
<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
#46
Posted: 12/3/07 at 5:57pm
Various drafts of the screenplay have been circulating the internet (and other channels) for ages.
Why are you "thankful" that we've moved on from the previous debate? Because it challenged you?
I suppose that's rhetorical, being that you think skittles and I were "freaked out." I'm sure your answer would be something like that it wasn't a debate worth having, rather than that you don't like being disagreed with.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
Why are you "thankful" that we've moved on from the previous debate? Because it challenged you?
I suppose that's rhetorical, being that you think skittles and I were "freaked out." I'm sure your answer would be something like that it wasn't a debate worth having, rather than that you don't like being disagreed with.
Updated On: 12/3/07 at 05:57 PM
#47
Posted: 12/3/07 at 6:16pm
GRR!
RENT's really, really, really bad script
RENT's really, really, really bad script
"Writing is like prostitution. First, you do it for love, then you do it for a few friends, and finally you do it for money." ~ Moliere
Updated On: 12/3/07 at 06:16 PM
#48
Posted: 12/3/07 at 6:19pm
ugh i give up.
<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)
#49
Posted: 12/3/07 at 6:19pm
Your link doesn't work.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
#50
Posted: 12/3/07 at 6:34pm
Link's fixed.
"Writing is like prostitution. First, you do it for love, then you do it for a few friends, and finally you do it for money." ~ Moliere
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