Riedel: "Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early" — Page 3

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#51

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 12:52pm

It's a cop-out, acrock, because it is first of all, a cliche. Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...of course it is! You can't possibly debate that issue. It's like saying "all people are different"--it doesn't lead to any other discussion.

It's not WRONG, but it's the debate version of "Because I said so."

"Hairspray, as brilliant as I thought it was, was still a production meant to capitalize on movie-turned-musical genre. Black is black and white is white. If it happens to say something more, then horrah, but it is what it is."

Yes, it was meant to capitalize on a famous title--but the creators still injected it with a sense of morality, a commentary on social acceptance and the nature of love. Artful doesn't necessarily mean "arty," like a Sondheim show. It can mean something done with skill and taste, and I think Hairspray certainly meets that standard.

I repeat, I'm not saying that what you think is wrong, it just isn't conducive to any further discussion.

Updated On: 3/6/08 at 12:52 PM

#52

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 2:33pm

Still, one can't deny that the purpose of staging Shrek on Broadway is to further exploit the franchise. Could it be wonderful? Absolutely, but we know that selling us a product is a major goal for the investors.
Riedel is not right, he even knows he's Broadway's National Enquirer, but it would be naive to think that the creative team has not been pushed in a commercial direction in one way or another.

Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE

#53

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 2:45pm

Name one broadway show in history that wasn't made for the purpose of making money. ALL shows are made to make money. It's such BS to accuse one show of being made just for money.

"Never before has an American president been so closely tied to a foreign power that harbors and supports our country's mortal enemies."

#54

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 2:49pm

Name one broadway show in history that wasn't made for the purpose of making money

I hope you mean "produced", not "made"..as I'm 100% sure that there are plenty of artists who looked forward to develop their craft way before thinking of any financial retribution.

It is my opinion that you are wrong to think that theater is only produced to make money.

Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE

Updated On: 3/6/08 at 02:49 PM

#55

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 2:50pm

Journey's End

#56

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 2:55pm

Still, one can't deny that the purpose of staging Shrek on Broadway is to further exploit the franchise. Could it be wonderful? Absolutely, but we know that selling us a product is a major goal for the investors.

EXACTLY! It's not to create a effing masterpiece! It's an opportunity for Dreamworks to further their franchise! It's not about creating this heartfelt musical, it's about capitalizing on a brand. Like if Mattel produced a Barbie musical on Broadway. It's not about furthering the form, it's about fattening the wallet! GAH!

And Hairspray was jumping on The Producers bandwagon! Just like Cry Baby is jumping on the Hairspray bandwagon! It is what it is!

http://theaterfag.blogspot.com/ Reviews and the like

#57

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 3:30pm

I love Riedel. He's meant to be an entertaining gossip columnist. I find him bitchy, snide, and extremely funny.

If you ever watch is TV show "Theatre Talk" you realize what a funny and charmingly obnoxious man he is.

I look forward to his columns and show every week.

I don't always agree with him, but I always find him entertaining.

And actually, I think he's married...not gay. But, one never knows.

Do one.

"It's not so much do what you like, as it is that you like what you do." SS

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana." GMarx

#58

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 3:34pm

When he talks to the camera on Theater Talk, he's really cold and never smiles, but when he's conducting interviews, he's oddly happy looking, and laughs all the time. It's kinda unsettling.

#59

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 3:39pm

I love his interviews, especially when an actor or writer calls him on his crap.

Most people I've talked to that know him, say he's very charming and friendly.

He's just doing his job--creepy as it may be. It is the POST after all... (A paper I generally read with a red pen--just to correct the typos and bad grammar. LOL!

"It's not so much do what you like, as it is that you like what you do." SS

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana." GMarx

#60

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:03pm

The Post is just a notch above a toilet seat liner...that's why it's a quarter.

#61

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:27pm

I hate using the Post as a toilet seat liner--all of those nasty headlines on my ass...

"It's not so much do what you like, as it is that you like what you do." SS

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana." GMarx

#62

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:32pm

But then the str8 guys try to read the scores off your a$$...that's fun--especially when you stop short.

#63

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:35pm

acrocksyo, I'm wasn't trying to convey it's not subjective, just attempting to further discussion. Sorry if it came across that way.

"EXACTLY! It's not to create a effing masterpiece! It's an opportunity for Dreamworks to further their franchise! It's not about creating this heartfelt musical, it's about capitalizing on a brand. Like if Mattel produced a Barbie musical on Broadway. It's not about furthering the form, it's about fattening the wallet! GAH!"

Alright, but here's where I disagree with you. Maybe that's how it got started, but that doesn't mean that the writers can't do some damn fine work when some money greedy producer comes and says "Let's make a Shrek musical". Margo Lion came to what became the Hairspray team with what she thought was a good idea for a musical. And they created a fun and dramatic score, interesting characters, and a well crafted plot. So, are you telling me the wit, tunefulness, and character content of the song "You're Timeless To Me" isn't art because it was successful? Or because it wasn't necessarily groundbreaking? Or because was the producer’s idea to make the show? Also, is something like "In My Life" more art than "Hairspray" because it wasn't conventional?

PLEASE! Do not post anything negative or dramatic! DidYouReallyHearMe has LOST the ability to ignore such posts and he will comment! Please, help him.

With Clay Aiken in Spamalot, all of Broadway is singing a collective "There! Right! There!" -Me-

"Not Barker, Todd is the only person I've ever known who could imitate Katherine Hepburn...in print." -nmartin-

#64

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:45pm

I don't think that a reputable composer like Tesori would not aim but to write something very interesting.
But you must also admit that the original Hairspray movie was nowhere near to a bankable product as Shrek is. When you know there's two more sequels coming, and tons of useless products (sorry if they are useful to some of you, they look useless to me) I don't think it's unfair to be skeptical, and to look at this production as an extra branch to this profitable product.

Of course the production can be wonderful, but we've had Shrek all over the place for a while now.

Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE

#65

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:52pm

"But you must also admit that the original Hairspray movie was nowhere near to a bankable product as Shrek is."

Yup--when I saw the movie, my brother and I were the only ones in the theater.

#66

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:54pm

Lildogs, too funny regarding the "sport" section on my ass...

Thanks for that, I'm still laughing!

"It's not so much do what you like, as it is that you like what you do." SS

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana." GMarx

#67

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:58pm

Barker, in regards to In My Life I think that was the ego of a song writer taking over, not artistic or commercial. He wrote a mediocre pop song that was a crap movie, won an oscar and decided to parlay that success(albeit 20something years too late) into a stage musical.

But getting back on the topic of Shrek, it is a commercial and marketers dream. A recognizable character from a hit movie, it's just a chance to sell product.

Hairspray is fun, I liked it, I saw the original cast, it's an escape, but it didn't really make me think. I didn't have a sudden epiphany after seeing "I Know Where I've Been" it was an escape, not thought provoking. Art is supposed to provoke something inside of you, stir an emotion, make you stop and think. Hairspray was for me 2 and half hours of fun. Not 2 and a half hours of thought provoking theater.

http://theaterfag.blogspot.com/ Reviews and the like

#68

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/6/08 at 5:12pm

Perhaps--but there is a great deal of elbow room in between thought-provoking theatre and commercial dreck...

Hairspray might not have made YOU think, but it's not a MINDLESS escape. There is literary quality to it--it's not Strindberg, but it's not MAMMA MIA! either.

It also has a great deal of theatrical inventiveness to it, which also serves to further the plot and fits into the "John Waters style."

It's far more substantial than it has to be.

#69

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/7/08 at 4:13pm

Has anyone read Michael Dale's take on Shrek and Riedel?

https://www.broadwayworld.com/showtime/viewblog.cfm?blogid=2059

#70

re: Riedel: 'Timing is Critical if Comment Hits Early'

Posted: 3/8/08 at 2:37am

Rodgers and Hammerstein (and Larry Hart) were absolutely artists first, and second and third. Hammerstein CREATED musical theater. He and Jerome Kern took the silly musical comedy and in 1926 with SHOW BOAT invented the book show with heavy emphasis on the story and characters. Kern and Hammerstein created the concept of the seamless show, where dialog flowed into song so effortlessly, they often insisted on NOT listing the names of the individual songs.

Rodgers and Hart, and then Rodgers and Hammerstein created basically every technique that Sondheim and Styne and Porter and every other composer has used for decades, including the "what if" and "but I don't love you" love songs, which have allowed characters to avoid the awkward "meet smart" encounters that had always begun first acts of musical comedy ("Oh Clark, here's my cousin Mimsy, she's so Keen to be on The Seaside...") and the use of ballets in musicals.

Rodgers has always claimed - and it sounds totally reasonable - that in order to maintain their artistic vision, he and Hammerstein started producing their own shows (but remember the first ones were produced by The Theater Guild). So they turned out to be good business men, hell they were geniuses, why shouldn't they succeed in business without really trying. And sure, they operated ruthlessly - do you think the Shuberts or any other producer of the time was a sweetie? Remember these guys also gave the world "Annie Gets Your Gun" and "I Remember Mama".

These guys were artists.

http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=972787#3631451 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=963561#3533883 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955158#3440952 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954269#3427915 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955012#3441622 http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954344#3428699

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