Riedel on Neil Simon and The Goodbye Girl

[10086sunset]

Posted: 8/30/18 at 9:36pm

https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/when-neil-simon-nearly-gave-up-on-broadway/

[oncemorewithfeeling2]

Posted: 8/30/18 at 10:56pm

I love me some Neil Simon and it seems that a revival would be appropriate this season.

There was a star filled reading of Rumors a year or two ago...that’s a personal favorite of mine.

[bk]

Posted: 8/30/18 at 11:42pm

Is Riedel just stupid or lazy or both.  He says Mr. Saks and Mr. Simon's artistic relationship began with California Suite.  I'm sure that would be a surprise to both of them since Mr. Saks directed the film versions of Barefoot in the Park and The Odd Couple long before California Suite.  And Mr. Saks was absolutely correct about the big issue with The Goodbye Girl and Simon was foolish not to hear him out.  

In the film of The Goodbye Girl, the Marsha Mason character is who we love and identify with from the first scene - we LOVE her.  We're with her.  Then Mr. Dreyfuss shows up and he's obnoxious and pushy (and funny), but we feel the same as the Mason character - and we, like Mason, eventually are taken in by his charms and humor and we fall in love with him just as she does.

What Simon did to that perfection was as stupid as stupid can be.  He made her a bitch from scene one, she screeched out an eleven o'clock number at ten after eight, and we, the audience, are put off by her anger and screeching.  Then Martin Short shows up and is so cuddly and lovable and adorable that we, the audience, LOVE him.  The entire dynamic of the film is upended and the musical dies because of it - DIES.

Also, amusing how he thinks Laughter on the 23rd Floor, which did not last a year on Broadway was some kind of huge hit.

[Theater_Nerd]

Posted: 8/30/18 at 11:47pm

bk said: "Is Riedel just stupid or lazy or both. He says Mr. Saks and Mr. Simon's artistic relationship began with California Suite. I'm sure that would be a surprise to both of them since Mr. Saks directed the film versions of Barefoot in the Park and The Odd Couple long before California Suite. And Mr. Saks was absolutely correct about the big issue with The Goodbye Girl and Simon was foolish not to hear him out.

In the film of The Goodbye Girl, the Marsha Mason character is who we love and identify with from the first scene - we LOVE her. We're with her. Then Mr. Dreyfuss shows up and he's obnoxious and pushy (and funny), but we feel the same as the Mason character - and we, like Mason, eventually are taken in by his charms and humor and we fall in love with him just as she does.

What Simon did to that perfection was as stupid as stupid can be. He made her a bitch from scene one, she screeched out an eleven o'clock number at ten after eight, and we, the audience, are put off by her anger and screeching. Then Martin Short shows up and is so cuddly and lovable and adorable that we, the audience, LOVE him. The entire dynamic of the film is upended and the musical dies because of it - DIES.

Also, amusing how he thinks Laughter on the 23rd Floor, which did not last a year on Broadway was some kind of huge hit."

Marvelous assessment bk...spot on! I’ve just recently watched The Goodbye Girl on the FilmStruck streaming service. 

Mason gives a tour de force performance and she is the one that engages the viewer and brings them in to witness her life.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 7:49am

Also, amusing how he thinks Laughter on the 23rd Floor, which did not last a year on Broadway was some kind of huge hit.

He didn't say it was a "huge" hit. He said it was a hit. It was. It played 350 performances with no star names (Nathan Lane and John Slattery were not who they are today back in 1993). It did well at the box office. The Broadway production launched a yearlong tour. Most straight plays being produced on Broadway today would KILL to have a run like Laughter on the 23rd Floor did.

Updated On: 8/31/18 at 07:49 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 7:57am

The Goodbye Girl musical is truly dire, and really not fixable, particularly as its book writer and composer are dead.

Five years later, he also had the 77-performance flop Proposals, which was also a highly unpleasant experience, according to friends associated with it. They reported that Simon and director Joe Mantello loathed one another and fought constantly.

After that, he had only two more new plays, The Dinner Party, which had a respectable 10 1/2 month run, and 45 Seconds From Broadway, another true flop.

Updated On: 8/31/18 at 07:57 AM

[LarryD2]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 8:01am

Actually, Simon's final new play on Broadway was 45 Seconds from Broadway, which ran for three months and closed in early 2002.

[markypoo]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 9:31am

From the time the GG musical was announced, my gut feeling was that both lead actors were a tad mature for their roles.
And after seeing the show at a Chicago preview I definitely felt the same way, and still do.

[mc1227]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 12:28pm

I never saw the GG musical but I get the impression that as Simon got older he was less open to collaboration.

On another note, I feel bad that his death seems to be a big deal in the Broadway circles and totally downplayed on the national scene. I suppose it has to do with McCain and Franklins funerals but I feel he has been under appreciated. He was one of a kind and I don’t believe we will see his like again.

[darquegk]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 1:20pm

Simon DID like Martin Short, though: in "I Must Say," his autobiography, Short talks about his time doing "Little Me," during which he was half show doctor and half co-reviser with Simon as the two of them worked on creating a version of the show that was both fit for Short and fit for other actors, rather than the piece existing solely as a star vehicle crafted around Sid Caesar's talents.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 4:20pm

I like The Goodbye Girl cast album. I didn't know the show was a trying experience for Simon. That's unfortunate.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 8/31/18 at 11:11pm

I know of several acting teachers, including the late Nikos Psacharopoulos, who would not let their students do scenes by Neil Simon. Their reasoning is that his characters are just doing one liners  from the Borscht Belt Circuit, insult comedy without any truth and not good for teaching acting.

[bk]

Posted: 9/1/18 at 3:47am

Well, I'd say those acting teachers were idiots of the highest order, that's what I'd say.

[Theater_Nerd]

Posted: 9/1/18 at 3:58am

I'm not really familiar with the musical adaptation of The Goodbye Girl. I will have to try to get my hands on the cast album to listen to the songs. I'm aware that Simon adapted his original screenplay for the musical but I am curious if he made any significant changes to the material that deviates from the film version. 

[Owen22]

Posted: 9/1/18 at 8:11am

I had a (very good) writing teacher once say, with no irony, totally seriously, that in 500 years the two greatest American writers will be assessed to be Neil Simon and Stephen King.  Take that as you may....

[bk]

Posted: 9/1/18 at 3:44pm

Theater_Nerd said: "I'm not really familiar with the musical adaptation of The Goodbye Girl. I will have to try to get my hands on the cast album to listen to the songs. I'm aware that Simon adapted his original screenplay for the musical but I am curious if he made any significant changes to the material that deviates from the film version."

Do you not read the posts in this thread.  Try my post - the second one - I explain all of this.  I don't get it why people post without reading prior responses.