#26
Posted: 7/29/05 at 10:46pm
Not any more.
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
Roz Russell On Singing Momma Rose...(I find this interesting) — Page 2
#27
Posted: 7/29/05 at 10:55pm
Ok, here is my family's claim to fame. My cousin Judy played MAme in High School and wore a dress that Rosalind Russell wore in that show. It was an evening gown.
"Friends are the people you chose as family."....Me.
#28
Posted: 7/29/05 at 11:06pm
Glebb - you are right though.
It does seem like Roz had a great sense of humor about things in general. I love how she explains her singing experiences with Bernstein. lol. And how she was terrified to sing harmony in OHIO.
But come on - you can't help to think that's pretty b*tchy of Merman to do that - playing Roz's tracks at parties.
It does seem like Roz had a great sense of humor about things in general. I love how she explains her singing experiences with Bernstein. lol. And how she was terrified to sing harmony in OHIO.
But come on - you can't help to think that's pretty b*tchy of Merman to do that - playing Roz's tracks at parties.
#29
Posted: 7/30/05 at 12:55am
"But come on - you can't help to think that's pretty b*tchy of Merman to do that - playing Roz's tracks at parties."
For me, it wasn't so much as bitchy as it was sad and bitter. Poor Ethel couldn't do the Gypsy movie and can only settle for being one of Broadways greatest leading ladies of all time.
For me, it wasn't so much as bitchy as it was sad and bitter. Poor Ethel couldn't do the Gypsy movie and can only settle for being one of Broadways greatest leading ladies of all time.
"I've got to get me out of here
This place is full of dirty old men
And the navigators and their mappy maps
And moldy heads and pissing on sugar cubes
While you stare at your books."
#30
Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:49am
Ethel was known to be somewhat crude. But she also had a heart of gold and was a loyal friend to many. I remember reading that she used to volunteer at a hospital or nursing home like three times a week in the years leading up to her death. She was really bitter about not getting to play Mama Rose in the film, which is totally understandable, but she was most vocal about Roz's husband being the snake who pulled that off. (Apparently, Ethel was told repeatedly that the role would be hers. The way the whole thing happened was rather tacky and insensitive.)
BTW, Carol Channing was none too pleased that Barbra Streisand got to play Dolly on film (and I do believe she still feels that way. Also understandable!). I don't recall ever reading Angela Lansbury speaking ill of Lucille Ball in "Mame," but Miss Lansbury is so gracious, I'm not surprised. (Although I could be wrong. I only know that I have no recollection of it.) So, I will speak on Miss Lansbury's behalf: AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH! I've said it before: Lucy (even though I LOVE LUCY!) makes "Mame" unwatchable.
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"
http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html
**********
"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"
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BTW, Carol Channing was none too pleased that Barbra Streisand got to play Dolly on film (and I do believe she still feels that way. Also understandable!). I don't recall ever reading Angela Lansbury speaking ill of Lucille Ball in "Mame," but Miss Lansbury is so gracious, I'm not surprised. (Although I could be wrong. I only know that I have no recollection of it.) So, I will speak on Miss Lansbury's behalf: AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH! I've said it before: Lucy (even though I LOVE LUCY!) makes "Mame" unwatchable.
http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html
**********
"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"
~ Best12Bars
#31
Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:56am
^ Some great points.
Ofcourse I think it would've been AMAZING to have had Ethel's Rose on film. But I enjoy Roz's acting a lot. But it definitely is understandable that Merman was so upset. I just think it was really classy of Roz to state she thought the role obviously belonged to Merman, and should've had the role for the flim. But Roz learned to take a role - when the chance comes.
Ofcourse I think it would've been AMAZING to have had Ethel's Rose on film. But I enjoy Roz's acting a lot. But it definitely is understandable that Merman was so upset. I just think it was really classy of Roz to state she thought the role obviously belonged to Merman, and should've had the role for the flim. But Roz learned to take a role - when the chance comes.
#32
Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:31am
I adore Roz, so you'll never hear me say anything bad about her. That's why I choose to side with those who blame it on Brisson! (I've read many a story about that guy screwing people over.)
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"
http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html
**********
"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"
~ Best12Bars
http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html
**********
"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"
~ Best12Bars
#33
Posted: 7/30/05 at 11:34am
If they dubbed her voice, couldn't they have found someone with a nicer voice? They let Natalie Wood sing "Little Lamb" and it didn't turn out too bad.
Also, why did they take out "Wherever We Go" I was really giving this movie props for including all the songs, up until this point, still that's pretty good for a movie to only cut 1 song!
Also, why did they take out "Wherever We Go" I was really giving this movie props for including all the songs, up until this point, still that's pretty good for a movie to only cut 1 song!
#34
Posted: 7/30/05 at 12:57pm
They did film "Together, Wherever We Go", but cut it for time--I guess having THREE actors not known for their vocal chops trying to sing together was too much.
Re MAME (the movie) Lucille Ball was the one who was ungracious. At the time the movie was cast, Angela Lansbury was going through some personal problems involving her son, and Lucy mentioned them in an interview (when she was asked why Angela hadn't been asked to do the movie). Lansbury classily refused to rise to the bait, saying, "I'm sure she made those remarks out of a misplaced sense of kindness."
Re MAME (the movie) Lucille Ball was the one who was ungracious. At the time the movie was cast, Angela Lansbury was going through some personal problems involving her son, and Lucy mentioned them in an interview (when she was asked why Angela hadn't been asked to do the movie). Lansbury classily refused to rise to the bait, saying, "I'm sure she made those remarks out of a misplaced sense of kindness."
I ask in all honesty/What would life be?/Without a song and a dance, what are we?/So I say "Thank you for the music/For giving it to me."
#35
Posted: 7/30/05 at 12:59pm
I know Merman's goddaughter. She doesn't have much good to say about her.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#36
Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:04pm
^ Wow. Very interesting!
And Yes.. You can see the TOGETHER, WHEREVER WE GO outtake on the dvd of video for the movie. And they filmed it with Roz's vocals, it would've been another song in the film with Roz's voice - if they didn't cut it.
And Natalie Wood sang every single note in the film, and she did a damn good job. My God - how I only wish they would release Natalie's outtakes for WSS. They give a few samples on the special WSS DVD, but that's not enough. I want too hear all her outtakes. I'm sure with some work, they could've used her voice for some of the songs.
And Yes.. You can see the TOGETHER, WHEREVER WE GO outtake on the dvd of video for the movie. And they filmed it with Roz's vocals, it would've been another song in the film with Roz's voice - if they didn't cut it.
And Natalie Wood sang every single note in the film, and she did a damn good job. My God - how I only wish they would release Natalie's outtakes for WSS. They give a few samples on the special WSS DVD, but that's not enough. I want too hear all her outtakes. I'm sure with some work, they could've used her voice for some of the songs.
#37
Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:31pm
A very good friend of mine showed me a video of the Mary Martin/tour production of "Annie Get Your Gun". At first I thougth she was too cutesy but after a while she really charmed me.
PS = I love the 'Together' outtake from GYPSY. Karl, Natalie and Roz all seem to realize that they are horrible and they seem to be laughing at themselves.
PS = I love the 'Together' outtake from GYPSY. Karl, Natalie and Roz all seem to realize that they are horrible and they seem to be laughing at themselves.
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
#38
Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:33pm
>Ethel might be a powerhouse on stage, but she couldn't act worth a damn. Yes yes, throw tomatoes at me for that comment, but I've seen "There's No Business Like Show Business." I wish I could say otherwise.<
Ok, here's a tomato for you! I saw Ethel onstage in Annie Get Your Gun when it was revived in the 60's. I was just a little girl at the time, but I will never forget it. She was a powerhouse, yes, but also a great actor. I can still remember her tears during "I Got Lost in his Arms". Incredibly moving.
Ok, here's a tomato for you! I saw Ethel onstage in Annie Get Your Gun when it was revived in the 60's. I was just a little girl at the time, but I will never forget it. She was a powerhouse, yes, but also a great actor. I can still remember her tears during "I Got Lost in his Arms". Incredibly moving.
#39
Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:37pm
I have no problem with Ethel on film. 'Call Me Madam' and 'There's No Business' are great films. She's great in em.
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
#40
Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:09pm
justme2- Just so you know, the combination of the strangeness in your post and your extreme delicacy in phrasing it sent me into a giggle fit. :)
"WHEN is the winter of our discontent?"
"NOW is the winter of our discontent!"
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#41
Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:38pm
So "Together, Wherever We Go" is on the DVD in it's special features? I didn't know that, I'll have to check it out because I OWN the DVD!
#42
Posted: 7/30/05 at 9:45pm
^ Yep. You can find it on the DVD.
It's quite amusing. They also have the deleted Rose and Herbie duet version of "You'll Never Get Away From Me."
It's quite amusing. They also have the deleted Rose and Herbie duet version of "You'll Never Get Away From Me."
#43
Posted: 7/30/05 at 9:49pm
I love the strippers in the film a lot.
The recent revival had very good strippers too but Tessie Tura in the film is amazing.
The recent revival had very good strippers too but Tessie Tura in the film is amazing.
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
#44
Posted: 7/31/05 at 3:24am
So did I. I thought the strippers were spectacular.
"I've got to get me out of here
This place is full of dirty old men
And the navigators and their mappy maps
And moldy heads and pissing on sugar cubes
While you stare at your books."
#45
Posted: 7/31/05 at 10:57am
I think Natalie Wood is AMAZING.
#46
Posted: 7/31/05 at 2:52pm
"Mama, I'm pretty. I'm a pretty girl."
Natalie was gorgeous!
Natalie was gorgeous!
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
#47
Posted: 7/31/05 at 3:31pm
Despite Mervyn LeRoy's assurances to Ethel that he wouldn't film it without her, that is exactly what they did. Warner Bros never really considered her for the role. (Has any film company BOTCHED as many stage to screen transfers as WB? CAMELOT and MAME are dreadful films that hurt the reputations of the stage musicals. MY FAIR LADY remains true to the stage show but never quite comes to life on film, and of course in hindsight NOT using Julie Andrews was criminal. At least THE MUSIC MAN keeps most of the original cast and re-creates some of the excitement from the Broadway version. PAJAMA GAME is one of the best but it was actually produced by George Abbott and Stanley Donen and Warner only released it. Same with DAMN YANKEES!)
At one point Judy Garland's name was mentined as a possible Rose and IF she had been able to pull herself together to do it, thing how amazing that could have been.
I think Ruseell acts teh part well enough..a bit too much of teh Auntie Mame schtick but it does sort of work for Rose. While the movie is a busy, fast moving film, they are so concerned with telling the story that they miss a lot of the darker subtext.
Choosing Lisa Kirk to dub Rose makes sense because Lisa's low husky voice doe sound like Russell's son it is a good match. (Sometimes they dub with singing voices much higher than the actor's speaking voice and it is glaringly apparent the actor is being dubbed!)
For more on dubbing check your library' periodicals collections for the July 1972 issue of HIGH FIDELITY magazine. There is a great article in there called "Dubbers to the stars: Who was that voice I Heard you singing with."
At one point Judy Garland's name was mentined as a possible Rose and IF she had been able to pull herself together to do it, thing how amazing that could have been.
I think Ruseell acts teh part well enough..a bit too much of teh Auntie Mame schtick but it does sort of work for Rose. While the movie is a busy, fast moving film, they are so concerned with telling the story that they miss a lot of the darker subtext.
Choosing Lisa Kirk to dub Rose makes sense because Lisa's low husky voice doe sound like Russell's son it is a good match. (Sometimes they dub with singing voices much higher than the actor's speaking voice and it is glaringly apparent the actor is being dubbed!)
For more on dubbing check your library' periodicals collections for the July 1972 issue of HIGH FIDELITY magazine. There is a great article in there called "Dubbers to the stars: Who was that voice I Heard you singing with."
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#48
Posted: 7/31/05 at 6:48pm
Damn that Judy did not make Gypsy and Annie Get Your Gun.
Damn, damn, damn!
Damn, damn, damn!
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
#49
Posted: 7/31/05 at 8:55pm
Damn that Judy didn't play Mame too.
VietGirl--of COURSE Merman was bitter! She was MERMAN! The only imaginable reaction for the foul-mouthed Merman to have when Roz was cast would be something like "F*ck that f*cking c*nt!"
One of my favorite Merman stories is the time her daughter was waiting to leave the theater with her mother while a long backstage discussion was going on with the stage manager.
"Hey, Mom!" Little Ethel (yes, that was her name) finally interrupted. "Quiet!" Ethel said, "Can't you see we're talking?"
Little Ethel waited a bit, then tried to interrupt again. "C'mon, Mom! I wanna go!"
Now Ethel was annoyed. "Shaddup, I tol' ya. We're havin' a meetin'! We'll go when I'm good and ready to go."
But Little Ethel couldn't wait any longer. "Goddamnit, Mom!" she shouted. "I'm gettin' the HELL outa here!"
And with that Little Ethel stormed out of the theater.
There was an awkward pause, after which Ethel turned to her embarrassed colleagues and demanded, "Where the F*CK does the kid get a mouth like that?!?"
VietGirl--of COURSE Merman was bitter! She was MERMAN! The only imaginable reaction for the foul-mouthed Merman to have when Roz was cast would be something like "F*ck that f*cking c*nt!"
One of my favorite Merman stories is the time her daughter was waiting to leave the theater with her mother while a long backstage discussion was going on with the stage manager.
"Hey, Mom!" Little Ethel (yes, that was her name) finally interrupted. "Quiet!" Ethel said, "Can't you see we're talking?"
Little Ethel waited a bit, then tried to interrupt again. "C'mon, Mom! I wanna go!"
Now Ethel was annoyed. "Shaddup, I tol' ya. We're havin' a meetin'! We'll go when I'm good and ready to go."
But Little Ethel couldn't wait any longer. "Goddamnit, Mom!" she shouted. "I'm gettin' the HELL outa here!"
And with that Little Ethel stormed out of the theater.
There was an awkward pause, after which Ethel turned to her embarrassed colleagues and demanded, "Where the F*CK does the kid get a mouth like that?!?"
#50
Posted: 7/31/05 at 9:01pm
LOL!
" ...the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm not afraid."
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