So...are people still COMPLAINING about Esparza losing?- Page 3

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:37pm

Perhaps Esparza's reaction to his loss is the reason I don't hav emuch sympathy for him,,,

[Craww]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:42pm

Craig, do you have that programmed as a macro for each and every time someone wrongly proclaims someone "robbed" of a Tony?

I don't think anyone is literally picturing David Hyde Pierce tiptoeing through Raul Esparza's personal effects to physically rob him of his Tony, like the Grinch absconding with Whoville presents.

They should be, though, because that's funny.

[Al Dente]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:43pm

Really Craig, you showed up on of all threads, THIS one to correct and chastise little ole me when you know darn well it's meant in jest and with a load of sarcasm? I'm so flattered!

Here, is this better:

Dear posters of Bww, I feel deeply that there was a grave injustice during the 2007 Tony award season when Orfeh lost the coveted, yet meaningless in terms of the rest of the world of entertainment, Tony award to sentimental favorite Mary Louis Wilson. In my most humble opinion, I feel Orfeh was and should have been the frontrunner and should have been the name Anika God Rose called as the winner that evening. I feel the awards' rightful chaperone home should have been Orfeh.

How's that Pop :))?

Updated On: 11/13/07 at 02:43 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:45pm

I don't. But I have said it once or twice on here. Al knows I was saying that tongue firmly planted in cheek. And I prefaced it by saying it was a matter of semantics.

But there are people who post here who will argue until the cows come home that ______ was robbed as if it were a physical act or crime.

[Craig]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:46pm

Al - you're a bit touchy. Clearly I was wrong when I assumed you'd take it tongue and cheek given my lead in....

[Al Dente]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:48pm

And craig, I forgot my :) at the end of "Pop". I actually loved being able to give you that response with MY tongue firmly planted in my cheek. You and I, for better or worse are old buds.

[Craww]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:48pm

I think the concept of posting on a thread too stupid to exist makes everyone a little touchy. I know this from personal experience in posting on Off Topic board Love Threads.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:55pm

Thanks Al Dente.

And my question was "Are people still talking about this?". And the answer seems to be no, BUT with all the angry posts on this thread, I guess they aren't over it.

I know we all invest in performers. Carolee (my favorite performer on Broadway) Carmello was robbed by Peters and I didn't throw a hissy fit.

[kasim]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 2:55pm

I can not state my opinion even though i saw all the performers perform due to Craww's profile picture scaring the bejezzes out of me

/me

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:01pm

Of course people are not "over it." They don't just change their minds because the Tonys happened months ago.

I thought Raul deserved the Tony (and yes, I saw both performances). I still think he did, and I probably always will. However, I am not actively complaining to anyone who will listen.

You asked, and people responded with their opinion (which, predictably, has not changed in six months). That does not mean they are still "complaining" or not "over it."

[misschung]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:03pm

Why don't we all just assume that he won't win this year either. You know, get a head start on our bitching over a hypothetical loss.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:10pm

Why is everyone getting so up in arms about Bobby ( a much longer time member than most who responded) for bringing up a topic he felt like bringing up?

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but to me, it certainly wasn't an issue of it simply being brought up, but rather the indication that this so-called "complaining" is still going on. And again, personally, I don't have a problem discussing it -- especially with some distance. But, while I do reserve my right to remain disappointed in the verdict, in the end, what's done is done and that's the way it is. Not to say we cannot or should not speak of it, but why must we act as though people are STILL up in arms about it, rather than just admitting we're re-raising a topic of discussion?

Truly, reading the subject, instinctually, I read it as "my God, are people SERIOUSLY still going on about this?" as opposed to the query of whether or not people indeed WERE, when, as you can clearly tell, they weren't until this thread jump-started it again. Does that make sense? I do apologize for misreading, but that said, I do still stand by the fact that while you may exhaust being vocal about your dissent, a loss in which you were personally invested --for whatever reason -- isn't something you just up and forget about very quickly. It was sad and disheartening for a lot of people. I don't think the fact that many of us have decided there's no use in babbling about it for months means it's any less of a sore spot. Frankly, it just means that we're level-headed enough to know that going on and on about it does no good.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:18pm

Broadway fans? Level-headed? That's a first.

:-P

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:23pm

Em, you know I adore you, but I have a few thoughts on the matter.

1. Esparza's "I'm going to win" attitude really rubbed me the wrong way. I watched the Tony's with someone who had no idea who was the frontrunner and he noticed Raul's "Oh, ****, I lost" reaction. I adore Raul, you know that, but there seems to be a bit of an ego that really hits me the wrong way, being how talented he is.

2. Im glad he chose a straight play for his next project. It will prove that he is a superb actor even without his great vocal delivery.

3. This was more of a response to the post Tony breakdown on this board.

[misschung]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:28pm

but...it was over until you brought it up again. That doesn't mean it's not a point worth discussing, for whatever reason, but it was entering the head horse category until this thread

Updated On: 11/13/07 at 03:28 PM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:31pm

Why is that my fault? I can bring up whatever I want. If I can ignore all the Spring Awakening, Wicked, Legally Blonde threads, you can surely ignore this one.

And why is it okay to treat people like crap just because its a message board? DISCUSSION does not an argument make.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:31pm

1. Well, I'm definitely not going to try to argue that the man doesn't have an ego. Because to even attempt that, I'd have to be living under a rock. However, that said, people had been saying, since even before the transfer, that this was his Tony. When you hear that kind of thing enough, both through the grapevine and with people telling you first hand, it's natural that you begin to believe it. I remember the first time I met Raúl. It was just about a week before the 2004 Tonys, and so my friend and I wished him good luck. His response was very sheepish and self-deprecating -- you could tell that he didn't think he was going to win. And then this time around, I saw the show... the Friday before the Tonys, I think it was. Afterward, I wished Raúl good-luck, and told him I was crossing my fingers for him. His response was anything but sheepish, but rather, he told me how excited he was for this year's ceremony. What a difference. It wasn't arrogant in the least, but rather very honest and genuine. And yet it was very clear that he had a feeling he was going to win. But... what else do you expect when that was almost all he had probably been hearing for months? There certainly was ego involved, but at the same time, it's hard to place the entirety of the blame there, because it had to come from somewhere. It had to be fueled by something.

2. I am so excited for that play, I barely know what to do with myself.

Updated On: 11/13/07 at 03:31 PM

[Craww]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:32pm

Come on, Esparza fans. Quit while you're (slightly) ahead. It's rare in a thread about Raul's Tony loss where we could possibly come out looking like the less inexplicably bitter party.

due to Craww's profile picture scaring the bejezzes out of me

Just when I think it's time for a change, I get a response like that. This one's a keeper, for sure.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:34pm

The only thing I can think of upon reading that comment is Chandler Bing and Michael Flatley, Lord of the Dance.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:48pm

Just to be clear, again, I started this after watching this year's Tony's again. Raul surely deserves a Tony for his body of work, but I believe the fact that Pierce was snubbed for Spamalot had a little to do with the win.

And, everyone probably thought Esparza was a lock, so they voted for Pierce because they figured Esparza would win.

I don't know...I know you love the show Em, but being a huge company fan for years, this production irked me, as it seemed to neglect what was so great about the original. Its fine to reconceive a show, but I think so many of the revival's fans were a tad cocky in their treatment of the original material.

I love you Em because you researched your but off on Company. So for you to love it more than the original, is a different matter entirely. I think as long as someone educates themselves on the past history of the show, they seem more valid when arguing the pros of the revival.

This post was more meant to the screamers who bashed the original Company as if it were beneath them.

[misschung]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:51pm

Did people bash the original? I wasn't really around the boards during the time that the show opened, but I actually heard a lot of complaints that the revival was missing certain aspects of the original production.

I guess it's a matter of preference, but you're right, people should be respectful of the original at the very least.

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:53pm

I heard the strike was spaked by Carrie closing, then Pirate Queen, but Lestat was just making the strike come. Some say that the movie version of XANADU was screened in NYC and Local 1 said that airing it was a crime. So was Tarzan for opening. Most say James Barbour used himself as inspiration when he played Sweeney Todd in his mind.

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:53pm

I heard the strike was spaked by Carrie closing, then Pirate Queen, but Lestat was just making the strike come. Some say that the movie version of XANADU was screened in NYC and Local 1 said that airing it was a crime. So was Tarzan for opening. Most say James Barbour used himself as inspiration when he played Sweeney Todd in his mind.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:55pm

Oh yes they did. Comments like "I hated the original but loved this one!" or "Wow, I tried listening to the OBC and it sounded so '70's". Um, dur.

I'm looking forward to the PBC broadcast so I can see the show again (and again). I liked some of Doyle's choices, but Esparza's Bobby (mostly singing) rubbed me the wrong way. And I am a Esparza fan in general.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 4:04pm

Just because some liked the revival but not the original somehow means they're not true fans, or not as worthy of your respect?

I never saw the original production. I was born about 20 years too late. But I have heard the original music and I do not enjoy it as much as the revival. I think the revival, with its sparser orchestrations, did a better job showcasing the lyrics and the acting. Plus, obviously, music recording technology has gotten much better since then, so the revival has a much fuller, deeper sound. I appreciate the original recording for what it was, but I prefer the revival.

Does that make me a Company-hater or a superficial fan?