So, I FINALLY Saw "Spring Awakening"- Page 2

[Testing1232]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:21pm

<< Spring Awakening's score isn't supposed to advance the plot. The songs are inner monologues of the character's 21st century parallel selves. The point Sheik & Sater were trying to make is to make the music separate from the show itself.
>>

I kept sitting there thinking of Sater and Sheik saying....... "Ok, so we have this great score... now, all we need to do is write a story AROUND the music" .. and not the other way around.
Updated On: 6/20/07 at 07:21 PM

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:21pm

That is an approach.. not a very interesting one, but an approach.

So the great break though in Spring Awakening is to stop the dramatic action cold and listen to some generic alt-rock inner monologue?

Cole Porter and Gerswhin did a similar thing 80 years ago with what was "popular" music then. Nothing new

There is a reason why we still sing those songs, but don't do those show.

I suspect that this approach to musical theatre writing has more to do with the inability to write for character and story. Which is MUCH harder to do than write some random generic alt-rock song just to fill up time between scene changes.

As for Ebersole. I think she has a lot to do with Grey Gardens popular success. But the show is well written regardless of her.

Updated On: 6/20/07 at 07:21 PM

[BroadwayEnthusiast2]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:22pm

BigFatBlonde, that's one of the greates things I've ever read on here.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:39pm

For what it is worth. As I've said before, the problem with Grey Gardens first act is that should be about Big Edie, not little Edie.

The major dramtic want in Act One is given to Little Edie..she wants to marry and leave Grey Gardens.. most of the conflict in act one stems from that.

However....

The problem is that Little Edie is written as a supporting character in act one and Big Edie is written as the main character - but without a main character's over-all dramatic need.

Thing work better in Act Two when the overall dramatic "need" - again, to leave grey gardens - is matched with the central character.

[PARISinNYC]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:40pm

Okay, BigFatBlonde. Have your opinion. I'm not sure if you've read ANYTHING Duncan Sheik has said about his choice of having the inner monologues, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:46pm

Thank you for giving me a right to my own opinion.

I'd be very interested in Duncan Sheik's take on dramatic writing. I may not agree with his theories, but I'm always open to hearing new ideas.

Post a link, please.

Updated On: 6/20/07 at 07:46 PM

[Jellylorum]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:47pm

"I wonder though, if GG did win best musical, would it last longer?"

I doubt it. Well, it might last slightly longer, but it wouldn't turn into a huge blockbuster hit. Spring Awakening appeals to more people than Grey Gardens. It has a large potential audience that was just waiting to be tapped into by the publicity of a Tony win. As for Grey Gardens, pretty much everyone that wants to see it has already seen it (or has already heard of it). Grey Gardens just isn't appealing to the masses.

Updated On: 6/20/07 at 07:47 PM

[Testing1232]

Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:57pm

Spotted an older couple sitting in the 1st row today-- they looked like they were having root canal against their will.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 3:40am

BigFatBlonde, you're absolutely right on the money. I don't understand why people think that Spring Awakening is the only show to have songs that are more inner-monologues there have been many shows where the characters sing to themselves or express what they want in soliloquies. Hell, even Grey Gardens does that.

Is it because Spring Awakening does it to the point where it can ignore the story entirely that makes it special? Again, that was Irving Berlin's preferred method of song-writing. It's not that I dislike that type of method because at least it's something new. However, I just didn't find SA's songs to be that good.

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 03:40 AM

[gymdudeva]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 10:33am

Testing1232: You really should see the show from out front. I think most (but not all) of your criticisms would be alleviate from a regular seat. There's a reason those stage seats are only 30 bucks...I saw it twice on stage first, and loved it, and was shocked how much better it was, even, from a normal seat.

I agree with what PARIS said. Is it maybe POSSIBLE the Tony voters simply thought SA was a better show? Must there be all sorts of other primary motives? Did they really like GG better but felt OBLIGATED to vote for SA for some other reasons? I saw both, and liked both very much, but in several respects I thought SA was the "better" (for lack of a better word) overall.

[popular_elphie]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 10:44am

VIETgrlTerifa, I think you're right on the money there. There have been so many shows where actors have expressed their inne feelings through songs or asides or soliloquies. Why is this so revolutionary in SPRING AWAKENING?

[Becoz_i_knew_you21]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:57pm

"Why is this so revolutionary in SPRING AWAKENING?"

Because they have microphones? I don't know, I don't see it being revolutionary either.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:04pm

Grey Gardens is a fabulous show, but so much of its material and creative choices is coming straight out of the documentary.

And SPRING AWAKENING'S material is coming straight from the play it is based on. Even in interviews, the cast and writers of the show said that a lot of the dialog and situations are the exact same as the play.

I like *most* of the music in SPRING AWAKENING, but a lot of the lyrics are downright cringe worthy. And yes, I agree that this should not be compared to RENT, but RENT was compared to HAIR when it was first released . . . . it just happens. And no, I don't think SPRING AWAKENING is revolutionary at all.

[VonTussleGirl]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 5:32pm

A number of songs in "SA" sounded the same to me.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement.

IMO, SA hits you over the head with one sentiment and one sentiment only: TEENAGERS ARE ANGSTY. Song after song after song, and they're all about teenage angst. "Oh, but every character has their own kind of angst! They all deserve a chance to show that off!" Well, that's all fine and dandy, as long as it doesn't get repetitive.

The problem, IMO, with the score is that not enough difference is shown between the varied kinds of angst. We have "straight and sexually repressed" angst, "gay and sexually repressed" angst, "I don't know what sexual repression is because my mommy doesn't tell me anything" angst, "my daddy beats me" angst, "my daddy rapes me" angst, "my daddy threatens to disown me because my grades suck" angst, and the quintessential "I have a crush and I talk to myself pretending he's hanging out with me" angst, which Les Mis did better. If each character/type of angst had been given a specific style, maybe the score would have felt less plodding.

[mywonderwa11]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 5:41pm

VonTussleGirl...I love everything you just said! So true!

[gymdudeva]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 5:50pm

A number of songs in "SA" sounded the same to me.

OK, I'm gonna get flamed royally for this, but I thought most of the songs in GG sounded alike to me. And I really thought there would be more of a difference in style between Acts 1 and 2. That would have made more sense.

SA hits you over the head with one sentiment and one sentiment only: TEENAGERS ARE ANGSTY

I completely disagree (as this pertains to the songs). If you were unfamiliar with the show, you wouldn't think most of these songs are about specific TEENAGE issues. Considering that the book (from the 1890s play) DOES deal with all these angsts, I think the score is pretty good at expanding that to more universal feelings, and not specifically addressing the plot points. And I think there is more variety in the music than most shows. If there's any hitting over the head, that is arguably in the book...but that goes back to the original play.

[loudasthehelliwant]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 2:26am

Are Touch Me, My Junk, The Word of Your Body and its reprise, I Believe, The Guilty Ones, Whispering, Those You've Known, and the Song of Purple Summer really angsty? I mean, really? Maybe one or two of them sort of have angsty undertones- for instance, if there were no sexual repression, than The Word of Your Body wouldn't be as... interesting- but they're not truly angsty songs. At least I don't think so. And that's like half the score.

Plus, I no its no revelation, but... teenagers are angsty. Sometimes with actual reasons behind that (my daddy beats and rapes me isn't a bad reason to be angsty, methinks). Is there something so wrong with a show about teenage angst?

Updated On: 6/22/07 at 02:26 AM

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 4:14am

I think the people who are determined to dislike it are going to remain thus. I've come to terms with it. Spring Awakening is an impressionistic musical full of almost disconnected vignettes, thoughts, feelings, that almost bleed together. I think some people just don't like getting their mind to that place.

So while we're talking about Grey Gardens, I don't think the problem is with the characterization in the first act at all. I think the problem (with the show) is that the first act takes place and is a build up to the drama, the second act takes place after the drama, and we never actually see the drama. It's a static musical. I like it quite a bit but it's also an impressionist musical, just in a more traditional style (much of Grey Garden's score is irrelevant to any sort of plot, but rather evokes ideas and pictures about the characters adding up to an impression and a feeling).

[mortgageguy79]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 5:22pm

Phoebe Strole is amazing! Love her!!! Glad you loved the show!

[Becoz_i_knew_you21]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 5:25pm

...Should I get the picture?

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 5:53pm

"I don't think the problem is with the characterization in the first act at all."

I don't think the problems is the characterization of the character in the first act as well. I think the problem is the focus. I believe the first act should be about the mothers wants and what stops her from getting them. Intsted it is about the daughters wants and needs and what stops her from getting them. Two diffrent things.


Roninjoey points out something interesting about Grey Gardens. The traditional "drama" is in the first act. While the entire second act is pretty plotless and is consequence of the events of the first act.

I find that to be an much more interesting approach to bookwriting than the devices used in Spring Awakeing. The text of Grey Gardens mirrors the spriling and odd devloptment of the characters lives. Much like the second act of Into the woods takes a sudden unexpected turn.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 5:57pm

"I think the problem (with the show) is that the first act takes place and is a build up to the drama, the second act takes place after the drama, and we never actually see the drama."

But I think what Grey Gardens does is makes you think "What happened to them, what made them turn out this way?" The show couldn't really show "the drama" because it didn't happen at one moment. Their descent was a gradual thing.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 6:05pm

Grey Gardens is more about the questions than the answers. Much like the documentary.

The first act is the starting point.. the second act is the finish line and all the stuff in between is left to audience to imagine..wonder..connect the dots...

I think Grey Gardens is sorta Rorschach test. The way you respond, judge and consider the characters, their behaviors and their choices says more about you than about them. That is why the discussions after see it with a group of people are so lively.

[Dirty_Rotten_Guy]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 6:11pm

i feel no need to even post in this thread, because BigFatBlonde has said pretty much everything I wanted to say :)

i agree that GREY GARDENS was, in my opinion, the better show over SPRING AWAKENING because
1) the score in GARDENS actually focuses around the story, and while still talking about a person's inner feelings, moves the story ahead. also, the music sounds much more diverse, with songs like "Hominy Grits", "The House We Live In", and "Around the World" as just a few examples of how different each song was tune and lyric-wise. SPRING's music sounded much the same, and just didnt move the story forward. I respect its just trying to be an "inner monologue", but it just kind of gets boring, at least for me.
2) I think the book for GARDENS was better. I mean, come on, though the 2nd act may have been based on the documentary, the writers had to pinpoint all sorts of bits of the documentary and turn it into one flowing 2nd act. And they had little to base the 1st act off of, so I can understand a few minor flaws there. For SPRING it was based off of a whole play, and many of the lines in there came across kind of 'cheesy' you might say, or pretty basic.
And I also want to add that Ebersole is not the reason most people love the show. Sure, many people may go to see her, but people leave the theatre thinking about the show more than her, if you get my drift. The show is beautifully written, and theres so much more to it than her 1 performance alone. If not for the other marvelous performances of Wilson and Davie and everyone else- the show wouldn't be all that great, even if it did have Ebersole. And hey, many, but not all, SPRING fans see the show just to see Groff or Gallagher or someone else- not just because they like the show.

And that was much much longer than I expected, but those are my thoughts. Yeah, and I don't mean to criticize anyone- I like both shows, but prefer GREY GARDENS.

[Dirty_Rotten_Guy]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 6:13pm

by the way, nice review, Testing

youre so lucky you got to see Phoebe! and im glad you loved Lauren

Ilse is the most interesting character in the show, and Lauren plays her so well- I only wish they gave her more to do