Talking down to teen girls in reviews

[ForB4]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 1:37pm

Reading the reviews for Anastasia (esp. Brantley's) has got me really annoyed about this. Of course, you don't have to like the show but why do these men keep talking down to teen girls in their reviews? Like yeah, they're a big demographic for this show and they're are enjoying it. No need to be condescending to them. And it's not just for Anastasia but I've seen this in reviews for other teen-oriented shows. It's really frustrating to see.

"But hey, girls love a tutu". Ugh

[elephantseye]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 1:59pm

I agree completely; teenage girls and good theatre are not mutually exclusive. Admittedly, Anastasia isn't a great show, but this happens all the time outside of this instance.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 2:24pm

Teen girls are the most maligned demographic. Everything they are passionate about is automatically seen as frivolous, and they are mocked for exuding the same sort of excitement and devotion to something (a music group, movie, book, whatever) that sports fans have for their favorite team or athlete.

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 2:27pm

I agree with you, ForB4.

The truth is, it's far better to have shows that please teenagers than those tailor-made for the snobby, pseudo-intellectual poseur set. (eg, Sunday in the spark With George, The Antipodes, etc.)

Invariably, the former are a hell of a lot more enjoyable.

Hoping Anastasia has a long and successful run.

[deltatee]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 2:29pm

I agree completely.  It is a completely sexist way to undermine a show's legitimacy. 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 2:38pm

It's so trite and reveals a lot more about the men than the young girls.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 2:59pm

To be fair, the behavior of teen and tween girls when Wicked opened didn't do much to their reputation as a demographic.  Who else remembers the sobbing "candlelight vigil" when Idina fell through the trap?  The infamous "slap"?  The neck brace?  And the fan-fighting that constantly ensued?  I remember the behavior of many of those girls in the theatre when I saw the original cast on Broadway and it constantly bordered on disruption.  There was a girl in front of me who was determined to laugh as HARD and LOUD as possible to EVERY LINE uttered by Galinda as though she wanted to ensure that Chenoweth could identify and remember her.  Someone must have said something to her because she quieted down towards the end of the first act.

[newintown]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 3:15pm

There's an honored tradition of lampooning the foibles of the American teenage girl - The World of Henry Orient, Imitation of Life, Bye Bye Birdie, etc. Around the time of John Hughes, it seems that there was a bit of a sea change, resulting in a presentation of the teenage American girl as almost the pinnacle of intelligence and evolution, with narratives like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Juno.

But it would be inadvisable to think that only teenage girls are thus parodied; small children, teenage boys, young adults, the middle aged and the elderly all come in for their share as well. It's just one of the ways the world runs. Try not to get too upset about it - maybe even try to see the joke, unless you want to be that person standing off to the side with pursed lips and shaking head, fuming while the rest of the crowd is laughing.

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 3:29pm

Mister Matt said: "To be fair, the behavior of teen and tween girls when Wicked opened didn't do much to their reputation as a demographic.  Who else remembers the sobbing "candlelight vigil" when Idina fell through the trap?  The infamous "slap"?  The neck brace?  And the fan-fighting that constantly ensued?"

Holy sh!t.  All this happened before I joined these boards.  Someone please enlighten me.  What Candlelight vigil, slap, neck brace, and fan fights are we talking about?

 

[Princeton2]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 3:42pm

givesmevoice said: "Teen girls are the most maligned demographic. Everything they are passionate about is automatically seen as frivolous, and they are mocked for exuding the same sort of excitement and devotion to something (a music group, movie, book, whatever) that sports fans have for their favorite team or athlete.

 

"

I work with a lot of girls that age and unfortunately the problem is that a vast majority do only care about the frivolous things and dont believe in hard work. Not helped by the role models they have like the Kardashians where everything is fame and image based. Plus they love drama and create it out of nothing.

As has been mentioned theatre fan girls can be a unique group themselves. Being sat near them at a show (Wicked and Spring Awakening spring to mind) wasnt a fun experience. But to be fair the middle aged Michael Ball and Alfie Boe fans are just as bad, if not worse

Of course not all are like that and its amazing when you can work with someone who doesnt follow the pack but unfortunately they seem to be in minority at the moment.

[gleek4114]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 4:17pm

I do think that the generalization of it just being teen girls is wrong. It really is a certain age/personality demographic that over obsesses about something. The best example right now is Dear Evan Hansen. I actually really enjoy the show, but the rabid fandom gets downright annoying. Keep in mind I'm a 19 year old male and arguably part of DEH's target audience. The other thing that really gets on my nerve is the star worshiping. Teens who obsess over Broadway hotties and Ingénues. I'm of the opinion that while people like Jeremy Jordan, Aaron Tveit, Laura Osnes, Sierra Boggess, etc. are very talented, but I'm not foaming at the mouth and applauding every move they make, or compulsively stalking their every move on social media. I just don't get that. I do have my favorites too. I personally love Stephanie J. Block, Alice Ripley, Carolee Carmello, Rob McClure, Kate Baldwin, etc. but again I'm not obsessive. There's a way to be a respectful fan. If I go to the stage door, I might ask for a picture or autograph, but I always first and foremost thank someone for their performance. While I've started rambling, I'll also point out the entitled nature of my generation. I don't understand how people can be so entitled to get angry of so and so doesn't come out to sign or take pictures. You may think you're their #1 fan, but at the end of they day you were part of an audience that an actor might or might not choose to greet after the show. They're not required to acknowledge your existence, and you're ego will be just fine even if you don't get to post that selfie or tell them whatever 5 second antidote you have planned. Sorry for rambling, I feel like I've gone off base, but the teen girl generalization isn't okay, but these rabid die hard fans between the ages of 13 - 22 seriously need to check themselves at the door. The stereotype about my age group is more true than not, and I hate to be lumped in with those who are less respectful/obsessive. 

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 4:28pm

Princeton2 said:

I work with a lot of girls that age and unfortunately the problem is that a vast majority do only care about the frivolous things and dont believe in hard work. Not helped by the role models they have like the Kardashians where everything is fame and image based. Plus they love drama and create it out of nothing.

As has been mentioned theatre fan girls can be a unique group themselves. Being sat near them at a show (Wicked and Spring Awakening spring to mind) wasnt a fun experience. But to be fair the middle aged Michael Ball and Alfie Boe fans are just as bad, if not worse

Of course not all are like that and its amazing when you can work with someone who doesnt follow the pack but unfortunately they seem to be in minority at the moment."

It really saddens me that you work with teenage girls and you think that about them. I'm really happy that when I was a teen girl, in a high school with only other teen girls, we had teachers and administration who believed that we were bright and talented young women whose ideas and interests were important.

[binau]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 4:32pm

Oh mi god oh mi god u guyz. L00ks Leik Elle is gunna win da prize. 

 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 4:46pm

qolbinau said: "Oh mi god oh mi god u guyz. L00ks Leik Elle is gunna win da prize. "

Don't do this.

 

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 4:52pm

LizzieCurry said: "qolbinau said: "Oh mi god oh mi god u guyz. L00ks Leik Elle is gunna win da prize. "

Don't do this."

Although, funnily enough, Legally Blonde is a perfect example of how young women can be interested in fashion and their appearance, both deemed frivolous, and still be bright, articulate, and academically inclined. I mean, even before she went to Harvard, Elle was a 4.0 student. 

[adamgreer]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 4:54pm

icecreambenjamin said: "Mister Matt said: "To be fair, the behavior of teen and tween girls when Wicked opened didn't do much to their reputation as a demographic.  Who else remembers the sobbing "candlelight vigil" when Idina fell through the trap?  The infamous "slap"?  The neck brace?  And the fan-fighting that constantly ensued?"

Holy sh!t.  All this happened before I joined these boards.  Someone please enlighten me.  What Candlelight vigil, slap, neck brace, and fan fights are we talking about?

 

 

Oh man, it was crazy, and as Mister Matt said, they didn't do themselves any favors. 

After Idina injured herself with the faulty trap door, girls went to the Gershwin and lit candles, placing them under the picture of Idina that was outside of the theater. It was embarrassing because to an uninformed passerby, it looked as if she had passed away. 

During previews, Chenoweth injured her neck in performances and wore a (bedazzled) neck brace for a couple of weeks. A rumor emerged that during a performance Idina actually slapped Chenoweth across the face while she was in the brace. This led to a series of rumors that the two stars "hated" each other. Joel Grey threw gasoline on that fire by seeming to confirm the slap in a NY Post interview. 

Around Tony time, the boards became overrrun with fans of the show who fired back immediately and en masse if you dared criticize the show. 

I also remember endless feuds over whether Menzel or Shoshana Bean was the better Elphaba.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:06pm

givesmevoice said: "Princeton2 said:

I work with a lot of girls that age and unfortunately the problem is that a vast majority do only care about the frivolous things and dont believe in hard work. Not helped by the role models they have like the Kardashians where everything is fame and image based. Plus they love drama and create it out of nothing.

As has been mentioned theatre fan girls can be a unique group themselves. Being sat near them at a show (Wicked and Spring Awakening spring to mind) wasnt a fun experience. But to be fair the middle aged Michael Ball and Alfie Boe fans are just as bad, if not worse

Of course not all are like that and its amazing when you can work with someone who doesnt follow the pack but unfortunately they seem to be in minority at the moment."

It really saddens me that you work with teenage girls and you think that about them. I'm really happy that when I was a teen girl, in a high school with only other teen girls, we had teachers and administration who believed that we were bright and talented young women whose ideas and interests were important.

 

"

While I have SOME girls that act like this, I would not cast this shade over them as whole. 

 

The only time I think these references are "right" is when the creators settle to only appeal to a single demographic instead of really getting it right.

[binau]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:15pm

givesmevoice said: "LizzieCurry said: "qolbinau said: "Oh mi god oh mi god u guyz. L00ks Leik Elle is gunna win da prize. "

Don't do this."

Although, funnily enough, Legally Blonde is a perfect example of how young women can be interested in fashion and their appearance, both deemed frivolous, and still be bright, articulate, and academically inclined. I mean, even before she went to Harvard, Elle was a 4.0 student. 

 

"

Yeah...in fashion merchandising! In any case, even if there is some truth to the frivolity of teenage girls - among other demographics - I personally place no blame on them as individual people. The cultural norms and reinforcement around gender behaviour (e.g., through parenting and media; and then peer groups etc.) are to blame. It's a systemic problem not an individual-level problem. 

Also, I like the comment made earlier re: say teenage boys and passion towards sport. I agree this activity should be considered no less frivolous. 

 

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:28pm

qolbinau said: "givesmevoice said: "LizzieCurry said: "qolbinau said: "Oh mi god oh mi god u guyz. L00ks Leik Elle is gunna win da prize. "

Don't do this."

Although, funnily enough, Legally Blonde is a perfect example of how young women can be interested in fashion and their appearance, both deemed frivolous, and still be bright, articulate, and academically inclined. I mean, even before she went to Harvard, Elle was a 4.0 student."


Yeah...in fashion merchandising! In any case, even if there is some truth to the frivolity of teenage girls - among other demographics - I personally place no blame on them as individual people. The cultural norms and reinforcement around gender behaviour (e.g., through parenting and media; and then peer groups etc.) are to blame. It's a systemic problem not an individual-level problem. 

Also, I like the comment made earlier re: say teenage boys and passion towards sport. I agree this activity should be considered no less frivolous."

1) I never said anything about teenage boys and sports. I was actually thinking more along the lines of adult men and sports. Obviously you've never sat behind a middle-aged man screaming "The Grandy Man Can!" whenever Curtis Granderson came up to bat. People who want to draw attention to themselves will, whether they're a teenage girl at the theater or a middle-aged man at Citi Field.

2) My argument is not about treating more things as being frivolous, but treating fewer things as frivolous. It's not your place to put worth on something that someone else finds interest in. After all, a lot of people think that theater is frivolous.

[binau]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:37pm

Well we can still call it out for what it is - getting a kick out of Ebersole singing "she's hereeeeee" during her War Paint entrance (as I do) is frivolous, as I think is sport. And overproduced pop music. I'd rather call it all frivolous than none of it frivolous. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:39pm

Thank you givesmevoice. A lot of the responses here are disappointing- it reminds me of a few months back where people were shocked that Teen Vogue published strong political content alongside fashion and celebrity coverage. Teen girls are inherently no more frivolous than any other group of people, and I do agree that some of the Anastasia reviews were unfortunate in that regard. 

[binau]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:50pm

I should also clarify my points because I am quickly typing on a phone and might not be clear, because I do think we are making different points

If I understand correctly, some are suggesting that instead of placing value judgements on people's interests and behaviours why don't we just leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves? After all, they probably aren't harming anyone. Fair point. 

What I am saying is that even if there is some truth that perhaps some teenage girls have interests and behaviours that might seem to need correction - why do we blame them for it? They are just practicing the bevahiours they have been conditioned for and that have been modeled to them by the media, parents, peer groups, society etc. 

 

 

 

Updated On: 4/25/17 at 05:50 PM

[reginula]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 5:54pm

I found it very weird that the first three Anastasia reviews I read last night (Time out, EW, Hollywood reporter) mentioned screaming teenagers. 

It's one thing that it happens (but again, does it always happen? Were all critics at the same show?) and another to make it part of your arguments against the show. Like, that's not staged by the production, my friend. I would find it annoying nonetheless, but those are completely different topics. 

Going on a limb here, but I'm guessing it happens at other shows as well. I don't think people stay entirely silent at say, DEH.

[binau]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 6:02pm

People that scream over performers singing is an example of a frivolous behaviour that should be corrected - I will never understand why if people are enjoying the last note of Defying Gravity they would want to scream over it so they - and everyone else in the theatre - can't hear it. Still, again I have to turn and think why are they screaming? It's not because they came out of the womb with a natural tendency to do this. Instead of thinking "teenagers these days" I think "parents these days", "the media these days" etc. the people casting the blame are probably more at fault than the people exhibiting the behaviour. 

 

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/25/17 at 6:56pm

There's no reason to deny the things that were said about teenaged girls in this thread -  positive as well as negative. That's what teenage girls are! That's what they do! I'm glad I was like that as a teenager - silly and normal!