The Vietnam War/Miss Saigon

I spoke out on here about my problems with the show, since I'm a half Vietnamese woman, and I had a handful of white posters on here leap up my anus about it, so you're a very brave soul for posting this, my friend.

It's orientalism in it's most distasteful form. I appreciate that it employs so many Asian actors and I appreciate some of the music, but there's so much about it that I find to be so offensive.

The focus lies on a story between a few people, that happens to take place during the war.

It does not trivialize anything by not showing everything to your liking. Nothing in life covers everything. With that said, this show does a pretty great job of covering all sides of the tragic of the war and how it influenced people from all sides. No winners, only losers.

Also, the show was never meant to be a political play.

About the war, people can also say that is was painful, brutal and, at times, difficult to watch. People say that about the tragic story in Miss Saigon too. That's the whole point. So you would like to have seen more of this brutality in the show like you saw in the documentary, or what? Or more war scenes? Please explain why that would make you like the show more.

The main thing I love about the show is that there are no winners, every character's story is tragic from a different side. That is one hell of an accomplishment in writing. It forces the audience to look at things from both sides. The show is about the human emotion and there is no trivializing in that. Again, not showing every aspect of the war (that would take a 42 hour show) is not trivializing.

Also, you and georgeanddot are talking about different things.

Updated On: 9/29/17 at 08:58 AM

i don't think there are winners in Miss Saigon..WHo won?

Schönberg and Boublil are the winners.

Dave28282 said: "Also, the show was never meant to be a political play."

I'm not wading into the debate about the quality of the show, but whether you love or hate the show, this statement is simply incorrect. Miss Saigon is, and always has been, extremely political.

I don't disavow (and wouldn't presume to) the orientalism in "Miss Saigon." For all of the reasons documented repeatedly. But seeing it again this past spring, in this revival (full disclosure, with a free seat), I was aware of how it brutally -- fairly -- paints the US. America hardly wins. If the show has any lasting impact, exploiting this awful war (which I'm old enough to recall -- I was in the third draft lottery) it's in its central metaphor: a callow American solider manipulates a trusting female and ends up responsible for her death. No one walks out of this musical believing the American characters have moral courage or integrity. Ironically, the show's least effect scene -- the confrontation with Ellen, rewritten at least three times -- makes this point. We are appalled, watching these two characters "handle" Kim. With Ms. Noblezada, the show gives Kim a modicum of genuine agency. For all its flaws, "Miss Saigon" doesn't let the US off the hook. I am grateful for that, and yeah, it crossed my mind several times during the Burns documentary, especially the Tet offensive episode.

Auggie27, I agree, and I think what you describe is exactly what makes this show so strong and solid as a rock.

It goes way beyond all the incorrect complaints, such as "america is the winner", or "kim is nothing more than a prostitute". Or "Chris is superior because he sings such and such line". The show itself wipes all these claims off the table.

Oh, so you just don't like musicals about serious issues.

It's also very amusing that your points, such as "A negative view of America" are the exact opposite of what other complainers say "A too positive America" and call them "winner".

BAM. Dialogue. Mission accomplished. Bravo to the writers.

Can you also please stop complaining about casting norms in 1989? That has nothing to do with the show.

It's all well that you are prejudiced against the show, but at least come with decent well substantiated comments if you try to trash it.

"Yeah, it shows the horrors of war, but it also romanticizes it." Ehm, no. Yes, it shows the horrors of war and all it's effects. But the brief 2 week romance, of which the viewers can question and discuss how much of it was actually real love, based on the confusion, the situation they were in, and the time span, is hardly romanticized. There is much more going on.

I would also recommend that you refrain from comments like these "and then eventually kills herself (ya know the way Asian women do)". Is there anything all Asian women do? Being a girl? Being a woman? The rest is not done by ALL Asian women. We would have a very boring show if we demanded that every Asian character can not do what miss Georgeanddot does not like the character to do. So stop with these racist comments and start seeing characters like Kim as full characters and humans, just like she is written.

"let's write a musical set in WW2 about a Nazi soldier who falls in love with a Jewish woman and knocks her up" That actually happened in Europe, where the wounds of WW2 are still not closed as a big part of the population actually lived through WW2. It's called "Soldier of Orange" and is a stunning show, now going into it's 7th!!!! year and is still sold out every night, for months in advance. The way they show that the human mind rises above any form of race, ethnicity, or regime is powerful. Just like Miss Saigon does.

Updated On: 9/29/17 at 02:33 PM

Stop with your racist comments and embrace Miss Saigon.

Okay, maybe America doesn't win in the end. They might not win, but I don't think they lose. Kim loses, because she is a one-dimensional character and chooses to give up. Chris may have lost Kim, but he was going to end up with Ellen anyway, and in a way ends up being a savior because he takes Kim's child, swooping in to save the day. Just because America isn't portrayed well doesn't mean it isn't a problematic show.

If it were better written there could be nuance. But it's not. It's a melodrama where two people fall in love after less than half a day. The characters are paper thin. To say that it doesn't romanticize war is ridiculous - Kim sings nothing but ballads throughout the entire show about suffering and love for the American soldier who would save her and take her away.

Updated On: 9/29/17 at 03:09 PM

Mister Matt said: "I'm so glad we have a new thread beating the same old dead horse again. Western people funny, indeed."

I feel the same way and I agree with GeorgeandDot.

Dave28282 said: "raddersons said: "- Kim sings nothing but ballads throughout the entire show about suffering and love for the American soldier who would save her and take her away."

She also sings about her deceased parents, her town, her job, her son, her fighting to keep him alive, her fears, her reasoning as to why tam should go with Ellen, etc, etc. "

I believed that falls under the "suffering" category.