The controversy over Gerard Butler's voice.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/17/04 at 11:23pm

I think I found some information that might be useful to know as some people I know are trying to find a reason why Gerard Butler was cast because his voice is either very different or bad. This came from the backstage article:

By contrast, Gerard Butler, who plays the Phantom, was a hitherto untrained singer. "But he has a raw, rock 'n' roll voice that Webber loved," remarks director Joel Schumacher, who joined Webber and four of the film's stars at the press meeting. He adds that Butler's voice serves as a nice contrast to the lyric tenor of Patrick Wilson, who plays Raoul, the third point of the romantic triangle: "Gerry has a strong screen presence and he personally connects with the loneliness of the Phantom. It's palpable on screen. When he was talking to us about the character, he broke down."

I'm glad I found this because I could not help thinking how "rock" sounding he was especially when he busts out at the end of the "All I Ask of You" reprise. I also found a separate article I can't find anymore where Lloyd Webber referred to liking the "rock edge" to the Phantom. What do you guys think of this? I think it's a good idea not just because I like that style but because bringing a movie with the word "opera" in the title to a popular audience of 2004 is a risk I think and I like the way Emmy sings rather weak and breathy sometimes as oppossed to screaming out notes very operatically with tons of vibratto that could be a turn off to most people. I think the way dialogue that was sung on stage is now being spoken in the movie is a step to make less like an opera to popular ears. I just wish they had done that with EVITA.

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 12/17/04 at 11:34pm

Personally, I'm not fond of compromising art for commercialism in any medium
However, I haven't seen the movie yet and shall give a more solid opinion on the film's choices after I see it

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 12/17/04 at 11:35pm

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I like how Butler sounds on the soundtrack.

I think his rock and roll edge is exciting.

I haven't seen the film, so I can't comment on his performance. But I always found (like you said) that Crawford's breathy singing was odd, and rather unpleasant.

The two best Phantoms that I saw were Hugh Panaro and Howard McGillin. Neither of them used that weird, breathy tone, and the score sounded much better for it, in my opinion.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/17/04 at 11:47pm

Yeah, I don't think it's choice just for the sake of appealing to joe six pack. I think Gerard rock voice is exciting as well. He sounds growling and demon-like too which even scares me at times in "Down Once More" I think his voice adds to the character and is a very nice break from just hearing sung as operatically as possible.

[NativeNewYorker]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 12:10am

I had a funny conversation with my mom about his voice. My mom is a HUGE Phantom fan, and I am as well, since my parents were always playing the album when I was little. My mom heard the soundtrack and automatically didn't like Gerard's voice, and then went, "Well...maybe he's not SUPPOSED to sound good! Who says the Phantom should be a good singer?"

Which made me laugh...who says Nubian princesses are supposed to be good singers? Vietnam soldiers? Crack addict strippers?

IT'S A MUSICAL!

I AM a fan of Crawford's voice, but I like the gruffness of Gerard's voice...I think he's overshadowed by Patrick and Emmy though.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 12:40am

I don't like it. The Phantom's voice is supposed to be sublime -- he is Christine's teacher, after all. But it seems here that the Phantom is the one who needs training. I don't find Butler's rock rawness authentic, either -- he sounds like he's trying to sing rock, but doesn't succeed.

My favourite Phantom is Colm Wilkinson, whose ethereal voice adds to the allure of the character. A Phantom with a good voice is a mysterious ghost; a Phantom with a bad voice is just a creepy guy living under an opera house.

[Michael Strathmore]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:02am

Gang, his voice is horrible. Simple. Period. You don't cast someone who cannot sing in one of the most popular roles written for a man on the stage.

No doubt Schumacher got excited at the site of Butler's good looks at the auditions, and that clouded his less than stellar artistic faculties.

Patrick Wilson can sing and act his role quite well. Butler can not do much of either. Seriously, wait until you see it. He is terrible. He moves without grace or cunning. Like a poor man's Batman, actually. (Thanks again Schumacher.) And whenever he embraces Christine, the lack of passion is astounding.

But if you don't beleive me, watch it again and count how many unmotivated gestures Butler has throughout the picture. This man was clearly out of his element with this genre.

Schumacher is out of his element with every film, but at least I was expecting that going in...

--M--

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:07am

Wow, Michael. I'm sorry you had a bad expeience but I just find your review too harsh to take seriously when so many have said otherwise. Give me until Wed to see it though.

[Michael Strathmore]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:19am

I can totally see why people will like it. There are some good things about it, for sure. But if you have training in musical theatre, and we are sorely outnumbered when compared to the masses, I think you can appreciate my points.

Still, see it Wednesday. And message me or post your thoughts. I'm game for a debate!



--M--

P.S. Just ask yourself this when you watch it:

--Why is there a horse available to take Christine from the hidden hallways behind her mirror to the boat-right before the Phantom's lair? I mean, what the...!?

--Why doesn't the Phantom get an introduction worthy of his status. I mean, bam, there he is on the screen without any dramatic build up...?

--Why are the performers' mouths so out of synch with their singing voices?

--Why is Schumacher ripping off Moulin Rouge?

--Why does the stage hand that dies during the impromptu ballet chase the Phantom throughout the performance, as if in an aggresive 'I'm-not-scared-of-you' sort of way only to then get terrified when at last he finally catches up with the Phantom? That one really made no sense...

--Why does Christine ask the driver of the coach she escapes into to take her to her "...father's grave", when clearly the man would have no idea on where such a place would be? Does he ask for directions? Nope, we are just expected to understand the the poor bloke knows where to go. Sloppy filmmaking.

And don't get me wrong, these are just tidbits of things that you just shouldn't do. I mean, these are the basics... Updated On: 12/18/04 at 01:19 AM

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:33am

Those are all little things that don't make sense that you only see when you look closely. Every movie has things like that. Why didn't Jack have a life jacket to keep him above the water longer since he couldn't get on the big door with Rose? lol There are plenty more I just can't think of them.

[Michael Strathmore]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:40am

Oh hell don't get me started on Titanic...

lol

--M--

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:54am

Or why did Jack say he would jump off the ship to save Rose when that would have killed them both and she is clearly not attractive enough to save anyway.

[ChrisLovesShows]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:59am

I haven't seen the movie, but I've listened to the soundtrack several times now and I just have to agree that his voice is NOT GOOD. A "rock 'n' roll" voice does not have to mean an off-key voice. Sebastian Bach, for example, certainly has a rock 'n roll voice, but he can also carry a melody, belt a tune, and sustain a note on-key. Raul Esparza's voice can be rough and rock n' roll, but he can can stay on key and SING with power. These things Gerard Butler cannot do.

Updated On: 12/18/04 at 01:59 AM

[Lara]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 2:34am

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I do have the soundtrack. Am I the only one who thinks that when Gerard Butler sings "Down once more to the dongen of my dark dispair" he sounds just like Arnold in the Terminator. They could've picked someone with a better voice, same goes with Christine. Maybe actually seeing it on screen will be better

[kec]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 3:19am

"--Why does Christine ask the driver of the coach she escapes into to take her to her "...father's grave", when clearly the man would have no idea on where such a place would be? Does he ask for directions? Nope, we are just expected to understand the the poor bloke knows where to go. Sloppy filmmaking."

Here's a suggested explanaition: Christine lived in the Opera House dormitories, and had lived there since she was 7. The Opera House has its own stables. She went to those stables for the carriage. As a member of the Opera House company, she would have been known to the workers there, and likely would have asked to have been taken to her father's grave before. It doesn't seem that far-fetched.

As for the horse... I had read somewhere that was a nod, if you will, to the original silent film.

"Patrick Wilson can sing and act his role quite well. Butler can not do much of either. Seriously, wait until you see it. He is terrible. He moves without grace or cunning. Like a poor man's Batman, actually. (Thanks again Schumacher.) And whenever he embraces Christine, the lack of passion is astounding."

I had no problems with Butler's acting. I thought there was a lot of passion between the two especially during Point of No Return. I liked his singing as well... he's not a perfect singer, but I didn't hear any off-key notes.

I did wonder about the casting when I first heard about it, but I kept an open mind when I finally heard the highlights cd. I liked what I heard, and I like it even more now that I've seen the film.


Updated On: 12/18/04 at 03:19 AM

[thespian geek]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 4:00am

You know... I don't even know why people are still discussing this. Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber, the *composer* and *maker* over this show obviously loved him and thought him perfect for the part. Same goes for Emmy. And bitching about it won't do any good. The movie is made and being released all over the world. If you don't like him, fine. If you love him, great. :) But there's nothing we can do to change anything.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 4:43am

TG, you know I think you're swell but I've gotta disgree with you here. I'm sure everyone's aware that their comments won't change the movie. Let people who dislike the movie or dislike Gerard discuss it as much as they want (as long as they don't become obnoxious Wicklynites in their lack of productivity). Sure, the movie can't be changed, but that doesn't mean we can't have provocative debates, critical or not. Otherwise what are we doing on this board to begin with if we only have positive opinions? It's no different for the theatre - it's unlikely anything we say is going to change the actor's performances - does that mean we shouldn't critique them?

Just my 2c.

[sharon1]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:16pm

I think that so many of us have grown up so to speak with the original version. Like Michael Crawford or not. Then we have also seen and heard so many great Phantoms or heard great singers do songs from Phantom that Mr Butler's voice comes up
more than just a tad short.

[kangaroo]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:27pm

"I think that so many of us have grown up so to speak with the original version. Like Michael Crawford or not. Then we have also seen and heard so many great Phantoms or heard great singers do songs from Phantom that Mr Butler's voice comes up
more than just a tad short. "

This is perfect sharon. I think that my expectations were higher than Butler's voice, and for everyone else in the cast. I feel as if they didn't get the best they could have, because there are others more qualified to play the characters in POTO.

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 1:32pm

I'm with broadwaystar2b. Why compromise art for bums on seats?

Emmy Rossum - people like her cos she's "less operatic". The laugh here is that her voice would have got her NOWHERE in 19th Century Paris Opera. Weak is the word. Proper trained opera singers have all the colour that she does. And use it without compromising on technique or power. She simply isn't developed enough vocally to be believeable. No teenager would be, considering the female voice doesn't mature til the 20s. And yes, you CAN find 25 year-old opera singers who look 18. Plus, am I the only one who gets wound up by how little she opens her mouth when she's miming? If she REALLY sings with her mouth that closed she'll have nodules before she's 30. If she doesn't, then WHY didn't somebody tell her to LOOK AS THOUGH SHE'S REALLY SINGING?!???

Gerard Butler - yes the Phantom DOES have to be able to sing well. He's an opera teacher, for crying out loud!!! You can't teach that unless you can sing it, and his voice is supposed to be utterly hypnotic (and not just to Christine) - other-worldly, if you will. (And no, I'm not a Crawford fan either) And don't get me started on taking the mystery out of the character. The man's a mechanical genius - an illusionist of the most tremendous intellect & showmanship. So why not turn parts of it into "Magic's Greatest Secrets Revealed" and the remaining bit of mysticism (the fireballs) into "Auditions for The Mask Of Zorro: 2"!!!!

Raoul - Struggles for his lowest notes, breathes in the wrong places, poor technique generally. There is a big difference between singing in Oklahoma! & singing in POTO and boy does it show with him! And oh, the historical inaccuracies! What annoys me most is in that period men would have their hair tied back - loose it just makes him look like a modern-day goth. Worse - it makes him look like a 15 year-old playing dress-up.

Bronxbound - One problem with your "why didn't Jack have a lifejacket to keep him alive longer" question - Jack (like all the others in the water who were wearing lifejackets) died from hypothermia so a lifejacket would have been pretty useless.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 2:44pm

I know. What I meant was how he was the only one without a life jacket to make him look more self-dependant and it got him sucked under the water really far while Rose was at the surface looking for him. Just an example of making it less realistic for image. Anyother Titanic moments poeple want to share! lol

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 2:49pm

I don't think Gerard is out of tune. I think everything these days has been run through the pitch correct machine. I think its just a sound were not used to.

[sharon1]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 3:29pm

Please forgive me but I have to say this. Not everyone on the Titanic had vest/jackets. The ship was supposedly unsinkable and they did not provide enought to begin with. I am sorry but I had to say it. Also, there are so many that love this musical, they just want a whole lot from it. It seems to me that the general rule of thumb seems to be you either love it or hate. Not a whole lot of middle ground from critics or public.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 3:34pm

sharon1, THANK YOU for your Titanic post. I was too lazy to answer it, but my mind is at ease now that someone has, since it's the dead horse that continues to be beaten. Folks, it's the same reason there wasn't even a life boat to accomodate everyone!

As for other problems with Titanic - when propelley guy starts spinning, we're not supposed to start laughing. C'mon, you know what I'm talking about. It's funny, okay?

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/18/04 at 4:12pm

Anyother Titanic moments poeple want to share! lol

I can't believe I'm writing this message, but here goes: from what experts say, Titanic is a surprisingly accurate movie. In terms of recreating some of the historic events that happened (love story excepted), people lauded the movie for encompassing all of them while maintaining a focused narrative. I know it's all the rage to attack Titanic because it became rediculously successful, but the amount of detail in the movie was pretty remarkable. (And I personally think Kate Winslet is beautiful enough to be saved -- I'm gay and I think she's gorgeous!) **gets off soapbox**

Okay, enough rambling about Titanic, back to Phantom....

Updated On: 12/18/04 at 04:12 PM