The controversy over Gerard Butler's voice.- Page 3

[Marquise]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 2:47pm

spidey,

with all due respect it is not up to you to tell others what they can and cannot post to a message board

to quote another board member:

"There is nothing to be done about most of the things discussed on these message boards. Nevertheless we write because that's what we do.

I guess my question is this... What is worse? The fact that I have been writing this, or the fact that you are writing about me writing about it...

You say why bother writing about it? Maybe you should heed your own advice...?"

thanks,

Marquise

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 3:27pm

I have a question. Wasn't Christine's father meant to be relatively NOT well-off? So how come he has the largest tomb in the cemetery????

Personally, I prefer the slightly more gothic simple-cross-with-mound-of-skulls idea.

[kec]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 3:35pm

"Come on kec... qualifies her response? To whom? This old bloke who, if he actually had some rapport with Christine, might not recommend she travel alone with all the happenings that have been about the opera house. Instead, he comes off as nothing more than a stranger. "

Well, AS I SEE IT, the man is a servant, which, to me, means it wouldn't be his place to recommend that she not travel alone.

I didn't see that line as contrived or in any way condescending towards the film audience. But then, I obviously don't have your vast experience in films/theatre. I go to a movie to enjoy myself not to sit and figure out what's wrong with every little scene.

BTW, you didn't answer my question. Let's assume the Phantom was played by someone else who was a baritone. Wouldn't the songs have been transposed to fit in the singer's range?

Bottom line... I like the film, I like Butler's BARITONE voice. You don't like either. We have a difference of opinion. End of story. Updated On: 12/19/04 at 03:35 PM

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 3:44pm

I think when Gerard is singing softly he's always great. There are just those few moments where he's loud that sound funny like "I am dare inside!" or "Let your mind start a journey!"

[Michael Strathmore]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 4:14pm

--M--

[kec]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 4:31pm

Yep... I think we'll have to. Peace...

BTW, did you say you worked at the Winter Garden theatre in Toronto? I recently read an article about it. Sounds like the building has an interesting history.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 5:21pm

Marquise, you should know me by now.....you know I put my two cents in everywhere. I wasn't really serious by the way since I have stuck up for many people who get trashed all the time on this board. No worries. And thanks for giving me a little "respect" lol

[Unmasked05]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 5:33pm

If you are having trouble with
Christine and Horse Scene
The Carriage Ride
and Joseph chasing The Phantom
PLEASE READ THE BOOK.....it will make alot of sense.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 6:47pm

Agreed, Unmasked. It will make A LOT more sense.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 12:01pm

I'm going to reluctantly weigh in on this "debate" with the following:

There is a difference between SINGING and vocalizing words in tempo and on-pitch. SINGING requires breath control, emoting, and perhaps most importantly, phrasing. Gerard Butler's voice possesses none of these attributes. And ALW's take on his raw, "rock" sound and screen presence aside, I cannot for a moment fathom that there is not another actor out there who is at LEAST as sexy, and has at LEAST as much screen presence as Gerard Butler, AND can actually do justice to some of the most well-known and consistently well-sung (on stage, anyway) music of the last 20 years.

Having admittedly not yet seen the film...there is NO level of sexiness or acting ability that will make up for an atrocious singing voice -- especially when 95% of the material is sung. The compromise simply isn't worth it. If ALW wants a rock sound, then hire an actor with a legitimate rock sound. Adam Pascal and Patrick Wilson (who has at least as much screen recognition as Gerard Butler, especially after "Angels In America") both possess thrilling, passionate, and CONTROLLED rock tenor voices. Gerard Butler's screaming and shrieking is not the result of a deliberate "rock" technique -- it's merely the sound of a man with almost no sign of innate musical talent, who's being vocally coached to within an inch of his life just to be able to reach the notes.

Having said that, singing ability, and it's relative importance to acting ability in musical theatre, is an issue that's always been highly subjective, and probably not more than simply a matter of personal taste. Updated On: 12/20/04 at 12:01 PM

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 2:13pm

I just hate when people actually think Michael Crawford should have done the movie. Have you seen those websites? lol

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 2:32pm

Michael Crawford? No!!! Anthony Warlow? Hell Yeah!!!

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 3:16pm

I would happily kill to see Anthony Warlow play the Phantom onscreen. In fact, I can't think of a better man for the job! His Music Of The Night is just... wow *melts*

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 3:18pm

You just don't know. I am listening right now and I have a drool cup that is almost full.

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 3:38pm

Mind you, I think just about the sexiest thing he's ever sung has to be It's A Dangerous Game.

And yes people, we are turning this thread into an Anthony Warlow swoon-fest. Problem?

Lol

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 3:41pm

The one NOTE that I have to put above all others is the last note in "Unexpected Song." **weak in the knees, feeling woozy, faints, wakes up, hears note again, faints again**

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 3:55pm

Can't say I've ever thought about my favourite note. I'll have to listen to my albums (oh, what a chore(!) Lol) and get back to you on that one.

I do love I Won't Send Roses, though. Wow.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 4:01pm

And "Johanna"......whew!!! You go Boy!!!

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 4:19pm

Anthony Warlow is so much better than Michael Crawford. I would give up Gerard Butler for Anthony Warlow I guess but I would miss Gerard's "You will curse . . " in the "All I Ask of You" reprise. That is the best sounding version of that reprise I've ever heard.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:38pm

"The one NOTE that I have to put above all others is the last note in "Unexpected Song." **weak in the knees, feeling woozy, faints, wakes up, hears note again, faints again**"

AND it's on the "ing" in "hearing" -- a CLOSED vowel, people! A closed vowel, and it's still earth-shattering!

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:40pm

I just listened to it 5 times and after reading your post to remind me of that "note", I am impulsed to listen to it again.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 8:00pm

The debate about schizo nature of the score goes back almost 20 years, when the show opened...

Many people were put off -- or wildly amused -- by Webber's blend of traditional operatta with that grinding synthisized bleat he adds in lumps behind the title song. It used to be one of the big howls in musical theater, that synthesizer (STARLIGHT EXPRESS) DA DA DA DA DUUUUU, da-DUH that turns an ambitious score into kitsch on the spot. (All the way to the bank, I know.) So Webber opting for a rock "edge" in his leading man only matchess his penchant for ham-fisted (again, to the bank) blending rock n'roll techniques into musical theater works that dates back to JOSEPH and JCS. It's Webber's signature -- he didit first, and it's been aped by many since. Look no further than WICKED. When Webber skips it -- SUNSET and BY JEEVES, I believe he does his finest work. SUNSET's score, in particular, is rather extraordinary, and manges to sound like Hollywood movies in the50s--homage that pays off handsomly. I'm a fan of his, but I certainly understand why he can turn people off, too.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 9:42pm

"Many people were put off -- or wildly amused -- by Webber's blend of traditional operatta with that grinding synthisized bleat he adds in lumps behind the title song."

Thanks for noticing that. I personally think combining the two is ingenious. It's like when Meat Loaf does his concerts with a big symphony or like in CHESS where it's half operattic and half rock or even WHICTLE DOWN THE WIND is the same way. He had the beautiful "Try Not To Be Afraid" ballad that went right into the 7 minute rock suite, "Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste." I thought that was pretty cool. Does it have to be all rock (SUPERSTAR) or no rock (SUNSET) in order for it to work?

[Mandy86]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 11:55pm

In my humble opinion, Gerald Butler's voice is excellent for the role of the Phantom. He has a rock-style voice sure, but can you honestly tell me you don't feel that rock edge when you hear the first chords of the Phantom's theme. Butler puts passion behind the voice that you can't get from just singing pretty. Raoul couldn't even match the Phantom when they sang, "Anywhere you go let me go too!" Butler feels the essences of the Phantom and his voice portrays it.
Also if we talk about vocal technique and if we're going to be so picky, Emmy was not too good herself. As a singer myself, I noticed many marks of an unseasoned singer. She scooped up to her notes constantly and her diphthongs were horrid. But I am willing to accept that because I could say I could do her role better but saying the words doesn't make it true. Same way you could say you could do better as the Phantom but you're not the one on the screen, it's a lot easier to insult when you're sitting on your butt.

[saphyrefly]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 5:59am

To keep it short, I saw the movie & was entranced by Butler. I used to play with my dolls to the soundtrack of the [Original London Cast] Phantom of the Opera, so I've been listening to Michael Crawford for years and years (I was about 5 in 1986, which explains the dolls). Crawford has a pure, beautiful tenor voice that I love, but change is good. I think Butler's deeper, more rough-around-the-edges voice personifies what a deformed (yet, with Butler, still a hottie) genius deep in the caverns below an opera house would sound like. I don't picture the effeminate Michael Crawford as a gruff, sultry phantom (but then I never have seen Phantom on the stage). Can't we like both? Michael Crawford had his time as phantom...let's share the wealth and give Butler his dues! Be more open to a little change. Updated On: 12/28/04 at 05:59 AM