Variety Pans 'Mermaid' — Page 3

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#51

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 4:50pm

wow, the review sounds awful. yup, i will agree, they need to retool this.

get julie taymor again...

#52

It's unusual to go to Shakespeare for plots, considering he took all of his from other sources. Romeo and Juliet is based on an Italian poem. The historical plays, of course, were tweaked to suit whoever was on the throne at the time of the writing. Shakespeare's about the poetry, not the plots. And I really don't think Doug Wright needs to look outside himself - he is very gifted.

The Lion King is stolen from a story called Kimba the White Lion.

I disagree that Disney Theatricals is interested in critical success. Sure, TLK-type reviews are nice, but they are in it for the money, and they probably will make some off of TLM.

#53

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 5:15pm

Romeo and Juliet is based off of a Greek myth that Shakespeare actually retells directly in A Midsummer Night's Dream. Most of Shakespeare's plays have sources. There are no original stories, even in Shakespeare's day.

As for him not being about the plots, well, I'll have to disagree! If it were only about the poetry and not the plots and the characters, I doubt he'd still be so immensely popular.

I think Doug Wright's abilities as far as writing for the musical theater are slightly dubious (he's certainly not the next book writing genius) but The Little Mermaid will coast for years off of its name, critics and suckage factor be damned.

Disney should just fess up to the plagiarism. Kimba--I mean Simba!

yr ronin,
joey

#54

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 5:21pm

"As for him not being about the plots, well, I'll have to disagree! If it were only about the poetry and not the plots and the characters, I doubt he'd still be so immensely popular."

I said nothing about the characters, just plots. Of course his ability to create characters through poetic language is much of what his genius consisted of. You just have to read Harold Bloom to understand what Shakespeare did with character (if you can stomach Bloom's fawning adulation, which I can).

#55

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 5:25pm

I enjoy Bloom. He gives Shakespeare a lot of credit but he's a smart and engaging writer. Shakespeare's language is brilliant, for sure--just look at his contributions to our language. Still, I give his machinations plenty of credit.

yr ronin,
joey

#56

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 5:30pm

#57

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 5:43pm

HOLY CRAP!

That's one HUGE Mer-baby!!!!!!!!!!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!"

#58

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 6:02pm

i really wish Disney wasnt so proud, and you know, putting all the marquees and advertisements up with THE LITTLE MERMAID starting in New York November 3rd
i just think if they werent so proud and all they might at least have waited to see if the show was ready for Broadway, and if it was, THEN announce a date, kick out BEAUTY, and put up all the ads
i mean, obviously the show isnt ready, and they wont have much time to make all the necessary changes and rework the show
yeah, i just think, with these reviews, it has potential to be another TARZAN
but i hope Disney proves me wrong.

My 2007/2008 Season: Grey Gardens (7/5) 110 in the Shade (7/6) Mary Poppins (7/7) Xanadu (7/7) Deuce (7/8) Spamalot (7/8) Jersey Boys (8/25) The Year of Magical Thinking (8/25) Mauritius (11/2) Young Frankenstein (11/3) Rock 'N' Roll (11/3) Pygmalion (11/4) Mauritius (11/10) Mauritius (11/21) Mauritius (11/21) Sunday in the Park with George (3/6) South Pacific (3/7) Gypsy (3/8) Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (3/9)

#59

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/27/07 at 8:40pm

"Izzy's Baby" is the official XANADU of BroadwayWorld!

It doesn't really have a point, but it's a heck of a lot of fun!

"Winning a Tony this year is like winning Best Attendance in third grade: no one will care but the winner and their mom."
-Kad

"I have also met him in person, and I find him to be quite funny actually. Arrogant and often misinformed, but still funny."
-bjh2114 (on Michael Riedel)

#60

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 12:11am

Didn't "Movin' Out" get panned from Out-of-Town to Broadway, but it turned out to be both a critical/artistic success and a tourist/fan favorite. It's not unheard of, but I agree that Disney hasn't exactly had the best eye on what's needed. I think this is one of the shows that doesn't need HUGE sets, and could probably be helped by a more straight-forward approach.

#61

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 1:57am

Izzy's baby kind of frightens me.

yr ronin,
joey

#62

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 2:33am

I think there are to many good things going on already for the show to be a complete disaster. I remember when the show first started running in Denver is when I first joined here, and the reviews were mainly positive (some really great music, wonderful cast). But there were a few flaws (some of the costumes and the ending come to mind). Really, I think maybe everyone is forgetting all the good and just overthinking the bad to the point where we think the show fails.

Or I could just be telling myself that I already bought a ticket, so it has to be good. Unrealistic of me? Maybe. But maybe not. :)

I want to apologize for some offensive messages posted on this board under my name. The night 0f 12-15-08 I did not have internet access, and someone had used my name to post something offensive. My avatar was also changed. I dont' know what else was posted, or if anyone recieved bad PMs, but I want to apologize for that. I've changed my password, and even though I was not the one posting these messages it still needed to be corrected.

#63

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 2:34am

Kimba the White Lion? Please! I hate that debate. TimeSuckage, TLK is a retelling of Hamlet.

And I actually found your comment, chino, to be pretty accurate. Hmm... "If only it were true, if only for a while... Cause bad reviews will close this show but Julie'd make us smile"

#64

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 11:10am

Movin' Out's problems were just in choreography and making the story more clear--not the entire concept.

Matthew Bourne was originally slated to Direct and Choreograph, but he walked, because he wanted more time solve some issues with show, and Disney said NO! They wanted it to open in Fall '06. They should have let him have more time. With Lez Brotherson (Who did Edward Scissorhands and Swan Lake) designing, it could have been amazing.

#65

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 11:41am

"Kimba the White Lion? Please! I hate that debate. TimeSuckage, TLK is a retelling of Hamlet."

Oh, gosh, well if you hate that debate then clearly it has no validity whatsoever. Thanks for schooling me! Now, what's this Hamlet story?

#66

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 11:49am

I've never before heard someone compare the Little Mermaidl to Romeo and Juliet. How exactly is one essentially the other?

"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey

#67

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 11:54am

TimeSuckage: I thought it was pretty well known that TLK was a retelling of Hamlet. If you look at the story there are some standout similarties: Uncle killing father, mother marrying Uncle (though I've never seen it really 'stated' that Scar and Serabi married...I figured they were together), son banished, son taking back what is rightfully his (obviously Disney made into a much happier ending than Shakespeare's telling) and the ghost of Mufasa telling Simba that he is the rightful heir. There's also a few other tid-bits here and there that can be related back to Hamlet...but I'm too sleepy to be analyzing anything too thorough right now

Edit: (About the TLM and Romeo and Juliet connection) The only thing I can really see that relates to it is the fact that Ariel gives up everything for the man she loves...perhaps like Romeo/and or Juliet left there families/homes to be with the one they love? That's all I can really think of.

Your aspirations are your possibilities-Samuel Johnson (and a little help from nomdeplume)

Updated On: 8/28/07 at 11:54 AM

#68

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 11:58am

Izzys Baby- Can you please post a smaller picture?

I do think that critics have been harsher on Disney than they need to be. I really think the name of the game is now "Who can write a more scathing review?". They really do not give credit to Disney Productions unless it is for the cast, even if credit is due.

#69

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 12:22pm

Sorry for being vague, most people think they can trace stories back to a grand source, and the reason I say Shakespeare is because his tellings are very popular. I also say Shakespeare because it is fantastic source material, the Anderson tale is just not big enough to play out on stage. It works for a 90 minute animated film though.

Anyways the farther you go back you see that most stories are as old as the humans who have been telling them. Ovid's Pyramus and Thisbee may be the direct source for Shakespeare, but go further back than Ovid and Hyginus and you see this tale has been told forever.

I found an "analysis" of the Mermaid tale and Romeo and Juliet. (It's not the best but it points to connections, these tales did not arrive out of a nebulous....probably really happened at some point in our evolution.) Mermaid is obviously dressed differently but the jist is there. Two lovers torn by families (different worlds) willing to sacrifice everything for the chance of love with another. Simple story when you break it down.

You can even break it down further and take out the symbolism or see where Anderson added symbolism.

Read here.

Updated On: 8/28/07 at 12:22 PM

#70

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 12:23pm

I thought I heard that they based The Lion King off of Hamlet and then Simba's Pride off of Romeo and Juliet. I could be wrong...

#71

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 5:31pm

oh my, that's cute.

#72

re: Variety Pans 'Mermaid'

Posted: 8/28/07 at 6:31pm

Izzy's baby... so frightening! Don't burn me with the cigarette :

Brina-doll, all that stuff is in Kimba the White Lion too. Kimba just happens to be a television series/comic book so the story is a lot bigger than The Lion King. But there's imagery directly stolen from Kimba. The original concepts for The Lion King apparently involved a white lion cub. It's a classic animation that any Disney animator would be familiar with. An animator is likely more familiar with Tezuka (who created Kimba) than with Shakespeare!

I think The Lion King is part Hamlet, part Kimba, part original story. Nothing wrong with being influenced but Disney really should just own up. I don't think they set out with Hamlet in mind, but the critics noticed the comparisons.

yr ronin,
joey

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