WEST END Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I half agree - it doesn't seem that there are decent English musicals anymore, and certainly not in the West End (though citing some of the most souless designed-to-make-money show on Broadway doesn't help your argument - Dance of the Vampires, Lestat, Wedding Singer and Dracula weren't people taking chances, but arguably 'safe bets' which just turned out crap).

However, you've ignored the recent Sweeney Todd, Jerry Springer the Opera, the Meneir's Tick tick boom, Sunday in the Park with George, and the forthcoming Last 5 Years (can't wait for that one!), Caroline or Change at the National; and personally, I loved the new production of Guys and Dolls. And the quality of dramatic works over here is, on the whole, far superior to Broadway, with many more risks being taken (Judi Dench vehicles aside!). Why not head up to Leicester, or over to the Bristol Old Vic? You get what you look for, and you have look outside the centre of London now...

Updated On: 5/16/06 at 01:01 PM

aarrrgggggghhhhhhh ok first im not talking about plays (we still produce some of the best

Caroline bloody awfull saw it on broadway and wanted to fall asleep

the new production of sweeny todd i thought was below average(cheap)

tick tick boom is good

as for dotv lestat and dracula they were anything BUT safe bets high investment (12 million dollars)on a genre that kept failing

as for broadway having no soul in there shows who cares

when i go to the theatre i want to be entertained (hairspray wicked ave q rent etc) because after working in this biz for so long it still amazes me that people go to watch say light in the piazza and think they are a cut above the rest because they saw what is billed as a smart musical NO ITS A BLOODY NOT ITS A MUSICAL.
Shows need to be fun and accesable to all ages to get the next generation in to the theatre and thats where broadway does it best .It knows that when you capture a youngster in the moment they will come back again and again to see more shows where as london seems hell bent on driving a young generation out of the theatre and in to the cinemas meaning they wont come back

ive always heard the dreaded words that theatre is a dying art form ,in londons case this seems true

the uk are crap at musicals

everyone on this board is talking about wicked or ave q or hairspray etc all american musicals and why?because they are better more exciting yes some are awfull but for the most part you leave thinking that was money well spent.

i cant remember the last time i walked out of a west end theatre and thought wow

ps jerry was years ago and the moment has soooooo passed judging of the 200 people on a saturday night sat in the theatre when it was on tour in manchester

end of 2nd rant
please dont shout at me im lovely really haha

When comparing West End with Broadway, let's not forget that Phantom is still playing there and Les Mis is about to re-open. In a site with such a title as "BroadwayWorld", most of the buzz is bound to concern new, American musicals. That does not necessarily mean that the British productions are worse or more obscure.

Go see the revival of "Sunday in the Park with George" at Wyndhams. I saw it at the Menier Chocolate Factory in January and it just blew me away. Daniel Evans is fantastic in the lead. It deserved a West End transfer and I hope it survived the transition to a bigger house.

I think some of these points are right... others are way off the mark.

The West End is a business and productions have to make money and if an audience is still turning out and watching them then good! All this rubbish about the West End being the same as 5 years ago based just on Les Mis and Phantoms continuing runs. By that token you could just as easily claim that its the same as it was in the late 1980's, which would clearly be rubbish.

Incase we forget Mary Poppins, The Producers, Billy Elliot, Guys and Dolls, The Blue Man Group, Footloose are all less than 2 years old and some less than a year old.

This year alone we have Spamalot opening (written by a British Team!), Wicked, The Sound of Music etc... yes, some have played on Broadway, but for those who can't get to the States for the new openings this is new theatre and new productions!

Every year someone in the media jumps up and says the West End is dying or dead or decaying - they said it last year and the general box office of the West End broke all box office records for revenue and attendance. And that was in the year that London was bombed as well. So the facts prove something different.

There is a wealth of new drama and productions - some rubbish admitidly - from The Globe, The National and seriously good drtama even up Shaftesbury Avenue.

The West End is a difficult business and sometimes productions are awful - but from my experience of working with it and in it, it's in pretty good health.

I'm always surprised that Blood Brothers continues to run. When I was in London some years ago it was playing to half full houses....and it still is. How do they keep it open?

If we're talking exclusively about 'British musicals' then, yes, I agree completely - really Billy Elliot is the only recent high-profile example I can think of. All the other shows we're getting excited about are either Broadway transfers or revivals (of Broadway shows).

But I'm not sure that we have the same kind of writers here to produce the next Mille or Hairspray. Our output is either melodrama (Phantom, Blood Bros, Les Mis), or folksy (The Hired Man, Spend Spend Spend etc). And maybe those kind of shows don't tend to produce a vibe in the same way - it's not feelgood entertainment from which songs can be taken and sung in pinao bars and cabarets. It's primarily an American art form, and we are very good at certain kinds of shows, but maybe not those that are currently in vogue...

I'm sure I read somewhere that New York needs Broadway more than London needs the West End. And there is a slight snobbish/ambivalent attitude to musical theatre here, and until that changes, we will never have that 'vibe'.

I've had a long day at work, so apologies if it all makes no sense...

"the new production of sweeny todd i thought was below average(cheap)"


Jesus Christ. I just...Can't even. Thoughts not forming. Okay.

ok must jump back in
The people saying what a great new year its gonna be in the west end due to shows like ave q wicked and hairspray opening are missing my point THEY ARE ALL BROADWAY TRANSFER SHOWS and thats my point.The uk seem unable to produce great new musicals at the moment.Chitty was **** lets be honest it was an awfull toe curling cringe worthy show,Billy Elliot is ok but i kinda left thinking oh well thats kinda what i expected and mary poppins whilst looks amazing(give the set and lighting guys BIG AWARDS)without that it would be rather lame(and im pretty sure will die the same death chitty did on broadway i give it 6 months)Jerry was great a genuine triumph yes but was a flash in the pan and now is finding it hard to get an audience on tour.And yes theatre is a buisness what needs to make money and it is doing and thats great but its just not an intresting place right now.And of course some new york shows are gonna tank here but what the hell does that mean(millie was the most unforgetable show ive seen in a long time)but for everyone that fails 2 more hit the mark.As for the awfull coment about my show footloose(oh my god david essex is coming in haha) fame and grease THEESE SHOWS BRING IN A YOUNG AUDIENCE IN TO THE THEATRE AND THAT IS WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT THEESE SHOWS(though yes i hate grease to haha)but i spent 2 years with FAME and it was amazing to see young people after the show coming up to us and saying they wanted to dance on the stage now thanks to our show so its important shows like this stick around.The West End is a tired place and if you are going to try deniying that you must not go much but yes the new AMERICAN TRANSFERS should give it the kick up the arse it needs and fingers crossed will give the uk writers the kick up the arse they need to give us something fresh and take a chance and write us some shows which people will look back on in 20 years and go oh my god that was amazing because its a poor do when les mis and saigon are still the big ones everyone loves and why is that because that was the last time the uk changed the face of theatre on a world wide scale(along with phantom and superstar of course)yes we gave the world the overblown rock opera but since then NOTHING.Yet with shows like rent wicked and ave q broadway keeps pushing the envelope its time for the uk to try that again....

ps FOOTLOOSE IS DOING AMAZING BUISNESS AND WE ARE HEARING WHISPERS THAT WE MAY BE STAYING AROUND FOR QUITE A LONG TIME IF WE CONTINUE AT THIS PACE YEEEEEEEEEAH

Let me through one name into the mix who is heavily involved in the future of the West End and its development and staging these Cabaret evenings you are all talking about, one night buzz events and new musicals - Sir Cameron Mackintosh... who has already spent over £10 million on restoring his theatres to their full glory and is pushing forward some great developements in the West End at his own personal cost, built up from the fortune he has amassed from his theare work.

He also stages straight plays in his theatres... lets not forget those... all this talk of slightly camp and rather "same-ish" musicals... whats wrong with a good straight drama or comedy? Like musicals are the be-all and end-all of everyones life and the theatre business!!

London does need the West End and I think anyone in London in any government or council would agree it is the primary reason for much of Londons tourism. Nowhere in the world can you find such a high density of theatres in a capital city.

Yes, many of these productions are Broadway transfers, but lets not forget the large number of Brits who are nominated for Tonys this year in great BRITISH productions in New York!

Personally I would rather cut my own head off than watch another high sreaching teeny musical like Saturday Night, Fame or Greese... but there is an audience for these and they enjoy themselves, and pay the money, and get into theatre - so all is good then.

Productions live and die by the audience voting on their feet - either they go or don't. In that sense the audience already dictates whats on...

I also agree with LondontheatreUK - lets put forward what we wnat to see and do something about it. It's the reason I became a director - what I wanted wasn't there and I thought it should be. Now it is.

Change can only come from action.

haha sorry about the punctuation and grammer was a bit drunk and a little tipsy tonight (god damn cast making me go out haha)

ok so first lets never hear the world darling again for the lovely person who called me that(the one thing i hate about theatre is that hehe)
2nd the person going on about straight plays (why are they called straight plays how homophobic hehe)im talking about musicals not plays i happen to think the uk produces the best plays in the world still.
3rd no j hassnt played ren yet as far as i know (or at least when ive been on)but i have seen him singing i cant stand still and was rather impressed

And i just thought of another musical about to open thats ticket sales are doing really well AND ITS NOT AMERICAN
BUT ITS BLOODY AUSTRALIAN WHATS GOING ON ARGGGGGGH of course i mean dirty dancing.

Im glad people got so involved in this little chat about Broadway vs West End who wants to start the next topic

how about who would like to strangle annie

since when did trains wear rollerscates

where has the helicopter from miss s gone(did someone pinch it)

who keeps going to see bloody return to the forbiden planet(arrrggghhh make it stop)

or

does anyone else think tim curry looks scary

should rosie odonnel be banned from the theatre(poor taboo)

WHY IS BLOODY MAMA MIA STILL RUNNING

or (brace yourselves)AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES WAS GREAT FUN

how about

why do we never see a chorus line here

if fame and footloose are musicals now why issnt flashdance?

and what the hell did happen on the way to the forum?

i leave it with you my freinds

lol

Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing. I was more entertained at a recent Little Britain event than the last time I visited the West End. I am also getting some of my theatre buzz out of Shakespeare's Complete Works Festival which is an exciting year which you need to go (see my other posting).

There are also some fringe festivals coming up Abbey Fest in South London, 24:7 in Manchester and of course, the Edinburgh Fringe in August. If you are not getting entertained enough by the West End, then there are lots of fantastic theatre productions looking for much needed support of eager audience members like yourself.


UK Theatre Network

---