What is the animosity towards Wicked for?

[ChenoMenzel]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:39am

I don't quite get it. It's a huge smash, selling tickets galore. The public loves it. The critics didn't, but that's fine. It's subjective. But when people call it pure pop trash, and all flash and no depth, I get quite upset. It is a big spectacular and "flashy" show because it's based on a book that completely merits its flashiness, what do they expect? It has to be staged that way. The Wizard of Oz, come on... And no depth? It's a beautiful story about two best friends. If someone cold explain to me all the negativity, I'd be most appreciative.

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:41am

I really do not think they dislike the show...it just seems that every post on this board is about Wicked. They are negative torwards the Wicked threads, not the show...I think.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:46am

Gee, if I went through every reason why people hate Wicked, I'd be typing here forever...

'It is a big spectacular and "flashy" show because it's based on a book that completely merits its flashiness'

But for one, the musical betrays the seriousness of the book :0)

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:48am

The musical is 'based' on the book, not a musical staging of the book.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 1:06am

It all comes down to success. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how well written a show is or how poorly written a show is. There are people who live a breath just to see shows fail and if a show is successful then there are always gonna be those who don't like it....

[lc1965]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:32am

I'm w/ BwayTheatre11 -- I've never even seen the show & my hair stands on end whenever someone says the title just because of the fanbase's behavior. Idina this, Kristen that, ohmigod - what's w/ Q taking the Tony, it's the best show EVER. Egad, please stop. It's a musical that was faulted for forgettable music, for pity's sake, so it's probably not going into the books as The Best Musical Ever. And, as talented as the performers are, they are replaceable(sp?) & will be. I will see it & possibly even like it, but I'm very put off by the behavior of the people who adore the show. I like this board because there are some people here who can actually have an intelligent conversation about theatre & get frustrated by all the Wicked adoration that interferes w/ that. We had the same problem w/ Taboo & Rosie O'Donnell worshippers, btw, so it's not unique to Wicked.

[JakeB]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:33am

BwayTheatre11 is right, it's the fact that it seems to be the *only* thing we can talk about on this board, Kristin Chenoweth and Idina Menzel are the *only* performers we talk about, getting tickets to Wicked is the *only* show we talk about. Of course it's not that extreme, I mean now Avenue Q is getting all the attention..

Wicked just annoys me because next season there will be a new Wicked and the attention span of this board, such as WickedFan1, etc, will just disappear and they'll change their names to BrookylnGal4eva or EdenFan2005.

[Amneris]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 10:23am

JakeB you are one smart lad. Everything you said is 100% true..
If you remember on broadway.com's boards everyone there was TracyTurnblad4life and Ednasbighouse
and then came Wicked.

[JakeB]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 11:52am

But what's worse is that half the people on this board haven't even seen Wicked (or Avenue Q), yet can still recite their favourite scene, favourite actor, favourite puppet.. HOW? The CD is only a tiny proportion of the entire experience.. gah.

[broadway1564]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:01pm

I think the strangest thing about WICKED is that the VERY reasons why people love the show are also the VERY reasons people hate the show.

My roommate saw it and hated the two leads. I loved them.

I hated the book. She loved the book and the acting.

I loved the sets and the costumes. She thought they were servicable.

I thought the plot line was thin and somewhat not understandable. She thought it was fine.

WICKED is a family show, also. All families will go to it and love it. That's why it will always sell tickets. ALWAYS! It's the next LION KING or AIDA (I say AIDA because they had great sales for three years and I see that for WICKED, then maybe a short downturn). It's not the next Les Mis ... BY ANY MEANS ... I kind of wonder if it will be around forever. Well, NOTHING lasts forever. Everything has it's time. It will, however, be Stephen Schwartz's long running peice.

I, for one, have heard some pretty interesting things about the creative team. I don't think they are one big happy family.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 12:04pm

I walk a fine line on this, because on one hand, I'm thrilled to see young people (oh, god, did I really use *that* term???) enthused about theater. But on the other hand, the deification of St. Idina and St. Kristen, the obsession with their every sneeze, and the willingness to cut them slack for frequently indulging themselves in the moment, on stage, and by many, many accounts breaking character almost routinely and then reading post after post about how cute it all is.... Well, it's all gotten really old over the past few months.

And I know...it's my choice to read or not read it....but it's there, so I read.

But I digress. I believe that I'm not alone in saying that the "animosity" aimed at Wicked is more irritation at the fanatacism of its most diehard followers, as opposed to the actresses themselves.

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:25pm

Thank God I am not one of those teens!

[MusicPos2]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:32pm

How is the music not memorable? I don't think too many people will forget "Defying Gravity." I actually think it's better than LES MIS, and I didn't think I liked Kristin Chenoweth or Idina Menzel until I saw the show. And I didn't really love Idina Menzel until I saw it the second time.

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:42pm

too many people won't forget "Defying Gravity" because that's the ONLY number anyone EVER hears performed or about... almost as if it's the ONLY number in the ENTIRE show...

[MusicPos2]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:45pm

I meant having only seen/heard it once. People aren't going to forget "Popular" or "What Is This Feeling?" very easily either, nor "No One Mourns the Wicked." And lets not forget about "No Good Deed" or the best song in the show, "For Good."

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:46pm

Oh God, here we go again.

I forgot all about "Defying Gravity". Actually, the only thing I remember about it is that it sucked! (Mwahahahahaha!)

(And before you click on REPLY, you should know I said that JUST for the hilarity of getting your nerves going, because goodness knows Wicked fans are a testy bunch. The teeny-boppers of theatre.)

And regardless whether you liked Wicked more or less than Les Miz, I think it's pretty obvious that Wicked will never be seen as the reverent and redefining classic that Les Miz is. For Christ's sake, Les Miz is 18 years old, and from the reviews of the recent New Jersey performances, it's still as fresh and loved as ever.

Updated On: 6/12/04 at 03:46 PM

[MusicPos2]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 3:50pm

So, let me get this straight, a new musical can't be as good or better as an older b/c it's newer? That's what you said. They'll both be around for another 18 years. Think of all that WICKED says about society and people. That's what LES MIS does. The ones that are still fresh are the ones that have enduring messages. WICKED (as does AVENUE Q) certainly does.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:28pm

I didn't say "a musical can't be good or better as an older b/c it's newer," I said (or implied, rather) that Wicked won't be around in 18 years. (Certainly not with its current production costs.)

Wicked, as does most theatre, certainly has something to say about society and people. It's just that Les Miz is something else - it has overwhelming crossover appeal. It's been staged around the world, in a myriad of different languages, for nearly two decades. I believe its success is due to the fact that the show touches upon social, political, moral, and spiritual truths - the whole gamut. It's a universal musical. Remember in 1990 during the Tianmenn (sp?) Square massacre, and people were drawing parallels to Les Miz? Or when 'Empty Chairs at Empty Tables' was used to describe the AIDS epidemic? Or how 'One Day More!' was part of Clinton's first presidential campaign? Les Miz takes on much greater depth because of its undeniable applicability. It really was a worldwide phenomenon.

I think it's pretty obvious that Wicked will never reach those colossal heights or universality.

But let's get back to the subject at hand. Why IS the board flooded with Wicked posts? I want to hear more about Assassins!

[citylights]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:29pm

I honestly don't think that Wicked's going to be as much of a classic as Les Mis is now. MusicPos2, I think Blue Wizard may have meant (correct me if I'm wrong) that we can't say that Wicked'll be as enduring as Les Mis because it's not even a year old yet (is that right?). I doubt that it will be; I agree that some of the music really is forgettable, not necessarily Schwartz's best work.

I think it's the crazy fans that are making people averse to this show. A girl I know was complaining about Wicked not winning the Tony over Avenue Q, when she hasn't seen or heard any Q yet. Not to say I don't love Wicked, was excited to see the show, and own the cast recording, but Wicked isn't the be-all and end-all of Broadway shows. It's the big hit of the season, and time will tell whether it's more.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:30pm

i didn't enjoy wicked. i found the tunes monotonous, the staging flat and the performances adequate at best. the animosity is a result of such praise being constantly heaped on a product that many feel is unworthy of our love (that was a reference, find the show). plus i like to take shots at bobbleheads whenever possible.

[~*Triple Star On Broadway*~]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:34pm

People have different opinions of all sorts, THATS why there is "negativity". It comes with every show, thats what makes things so interesting. Obviously WICKED is a favourite of yours, which is awesome. But you cannot expect everyone to love it like you do, just because people have different tastes.

[dramaqueen]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:39pm

and its not all about *teens* either-i mean im a teenager-and im not obsessed over the show-yes i want o see it-no i dont talk about it nonstop-or even post about it nonstop-so yes-a lot of teens really love the show and talk about it a lot-but don't generalize young people

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:40pm

That's exactly what I mean, citylights. There's no way that Wicked will be seen in 18 years as the venerable, era-defining classic that Les Miz is now. Again, Les Miz was a PHENOMENON that actually had social, political, and cultural impact. Wicked is just the big family-friendly hit of the season. Not comparable.

As a young person myself, I hope I'm not generalizing my own. I was using the term "teeny-boppers" in a tongue-in-cheek way, to describe the stereotypical bubbling of hysteria that teenagers in the media have.

Updated On: 6/12/04 at 04:40 PM

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:55pm

dramaqueen, I never implied that *all* young people are obsessive Wicked fans. But my observation is that the majority of the Idina/Kristen worship that does go on, is coming from young people (and keep in mind, coming from an old fart like me, that encompasses a wide age range...)

Now, on the other hand, if you want to see some out of control middle aged women, go sit in the balcony at The Man From Oz. We are talking menopausal hysteria every time Hugh changes his shirt. The day I was there, two women a few rows ahead of me gave him a standing O every time he sang a song AND every time he changed clothing. The reason the Wicked fans get picked on here, and the Oz fans don't, is because it seems like the Oz fans haven't discovered, en masse, the wonderful world of message boards (or at least THIS message board)..

Oh, and DQ... I can't speak for everyone, but I have a hell of a time trying to read what you write. An occasional period or comma would help get your point across. (No snotty tone intended.)

[Becky]

Posted: 6/12/04 at 4:58pm

I honestly don't think that Wicked's going to be as much of a classic as Les Mis is now.

So we can tell this from a show that hasn't even been open a year? A little premature to start making such predictions -- either way.

And Papa, I understand what you are saying about feeling credit might be given to something that some feel doesn't deserve it. But don't forget many feel it is quite deserving -- and this show has been successful in large part to word of mouth -- so that says something about how audiences are responding. And I can only speak for myself, but my love of the show had very little to do with the "spectacle" and big budget (as some often like to insinuate). I adore the score, staging, performances, and story. There is not really a way to debate what shows are truly deserving of "praise" because what appeals to people is so subjective. I'm happy it's doing well and that it's enjoying so much success, and I feel the praise is heaped on a product that is truly deserving.