What is the animosity towards Wicked for?- Page 3

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 12:41am

I hope I didn't seem like I was attacking anyone's opinion (not unless for tongue-in-cheek fun). My natural writing style is just very analytical, which some would deem dismissive. Friends? =-)

Updated On: 6/13/04 at 12:41 AM

[wickedpopular]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 12:52am

it wasn't you blue .... FindingNamo was the one who I didn't really appreciate. In any case I do think it is great to bring in new audiences. I think thats why producers cast people like P. Diddy or Joey Fatone, who may not really cut it in the Broadway world. Because they do bring in audiences, and I think that exposure is a wonderful thing.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 1:14am

That's definitely something else we'll agree to disagree on: I hate stunt casting. Unless the "star" has some really strong acting chops, I find it a bit degrading for Broadway for several reasons. First, usually the star's persona completely overshadows the play. Second, the role could have easily been played by a skilled, hard-working stage actor who would have killed for work. Third, it looks bad for Broadway, a place of legitimate and professional theatre. And fourth, it robs the audience of a true theatre experience; true, they may have come in just to see that star, but they'll come out with a false idea of what theatre is.

Having said that, though, I really commend Sean Combs for taking the critics' lashings with such grace and dignity. I think he knows as well as anyone that he's just the crowd-herder, and that the actresses of 'Raisin...' are the true pillars of the production. The fact that he's still so gracious about it is really admirable.

And I still love you, FindingNamo!

Updated On: 6/13/04 at 01:14 AM

[wickedpopular]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 1:25am

I have a hard time with the celeb casting too, I really do. As an actor it is really hard to see the parts go to people who you know are a lot less qualified than you are. I actually used to HATE the idea, and was boycotting the shows that were doing this. I just couldn't see why they would take away jobs from hard working actors, but when you think about it if it extending the longievity of a show isn't that a good thing? Think of all the actors who are keeping their jobs for a longer period of time. If there is one "celeb" per show, its seems like a small price to pay for the security of the other castmembers jobs. People who are hard working talented actors. I wish this wasn't the case, that people would come see broadway for broadway - but if throwing a boy band in the mix will fill the seats, what can you do? I just hope it won't become an epidemic. If the day comes when a show is totally cast by celebs, then thats the day I pack up my tap shoes and head for the hills. I pray to God that day never comes.

(while we're at it lets stop all the movies filming in canada too!)

[etoile]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 2:46am

Wait! Audrey II eats Seymour? Thanks, BG2, for reminding me of that forgettable ending.

And I love Namo. Just thought I'd say it. Hasn't been said for awhile.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 4:10am

To answer the original question:

WICKED was actually the show I was most looking forward to this season, but the end result demonstrated what happens when a first-rate idea is realized by second-rate talents. The convoluted, alomst Wagnerian darkness of the book was transformed into "Dawsons Creek meets Hogwarts". And the score is unmemorable, and with little that sticks in my mind except Kristin twinkling and Idina geshreying. They sold that score for far more than it is worth.

It is interesting that now there seems to be a "Poor Widdle Wicked" mood among columnists. Obstensibly they are angry at the "Big Bad Q" for its ballsy Vegas deal, yet I wonder how many have it out for Q BECAUSE they were all made to look like fools after its surprise Tony triumph. Before the Tonys, no show was more smug than WICKED. And they had good reason to feel that way - it was a word-of-mouth smash, engendering the biggest and most vocal fan base for a Broadway musical since RENT. In retrospect, you could see why they thought "We have this one in the BAG! Oh, and that adorable little naughty puppet show - isn't it just DARLING?!"

Updated On: 6/13/04 at 04:10 AM

[broadway86]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 10:39am

Just saw the show two nights ago, and...

I don't see why anyone could not like it.

PS - IMHO, Avenue Q did not deserve the Best Musical Tony. (Yes, I have seen all of the nominees.)

[Becky]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 4:10pm

I thought the main point of my argument about Les Miz was that it has a certain universality and power that Wicked doesn't have.

And I pointed out that when Les Mis had been open the amount of time WICKED has, it didn't either.

It's WAY, WAY, WAY too early to tell what kind of impact WICKED will have. It just is.

[StateOfJade]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 4:13pm

I just think it's a horribly written show and it's embarassing to listen to.

[wickedfan330]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 5:28pm

how can lez mis be compared with wicked...les miz was more of an opera, wicked is a flat out belty, brassy musical...theyre both great but on totally different wavelengths...

[Musetta1957]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 6:33pm

"how can lez mis be compared with wicked...les miz was more of an opera, wicked is a flat out belty, brassy musical...theyre both great but on totally different wavelengths..."

How can Les Miz be compared with Wicked? Les Miz was more of an opera; Wicked is a flat-out belty, brassy musical. They're both great, but on totally different wavelengths.

[StateOfJade]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 7:02pm

That was a tad pointless, Musetta.

[SMichaelK]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 7:06pm

I'm thinking it relates to another post... just Musetta being jocular, but I could be wrong

[Musetta1957]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 7:06pm

Well, I consider it a public service. If you want to wade through the txttlk spooge, be my guest!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 7:50pm

Because dissing the popular show on Broadway makes you look cool. It's way cooler to say how much you hate something and rip it to shreds than to say something positive about it, unless it's the underdog show or the edgy show. If one of those ends up running for a long time, then you should diss it after a couple of yeasr when the hype wears off. That's cool too.

[secret-soul]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 8:04pm

"Also to those of you who think the score is monotonous ... um, have you ever heard a Stephen Schartz musical before. It's his style, he incorporates certian themes throughout the show, reintroducing them frequently. It's just what he does."

Yes, thank you, I stage managed Pippin in high school and I know a LOT about Schwartz's work and, you know what? Wicked is NOT his best and I'm really sick of people proclaiming it to be so when they really know NOTHING. It hurts my eyes to come to the boards and see nothing but "Wicked is Great, posted by wicked4me2day" and "How did Wicked get beat by puppets, posted by idina_cake9489" and "I <3 Wicked, posted by Iheartwickedcheno"...it's really REALLY sick. Ok, so maybe you think it's just the bestest musical "in, like, the whole world"....but we don't need ten billion threads proclaiming it. Go to a WICKED board. They're out there.
As to the music being forgettable....the only reason I remember ANY song ("Popular") is because I have nightmares of Kristen Chenoweth singing the damned thing.
As to Wicked vs. Les Miz...who the hell started this crap? Yes, many shows live past what critics ever thought they were worth (i.e. Les Miz, Phantom and, GOD HELP US, Mamma Mia). HOWEVER Wicked...............



sorry, had to stop typing...I got a migraine just from SEEING that word...
THAT show does not(in my humble opinion)raise the theatrical bar in ANY way. Idina is and always has been great...but that's not....THE SHOW...that's Idina Menzel...if IT does live past the age of 2 or 3, it's because it's following in the steps of CATS and Mamma Mia (no offense to the fans of these) which are spectacle (NOT specacULAR) and a shame to walk by every day...thank god Cats is finally gone. THIS show will be great for high schools...but it doesn't need to remain at the Gershwin. PLEASE MAKE IT GO AWAY!!!!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 8:05pm

Or you could stake your claim right in the middle. Have opinions that seem almost designed to not offend. Like a lot of Broadway fare this year. Just say you can see both sides (even if there are more than two!) and don't actually take a stance on anything, but if you do, claim you're not. Don't be colorful, be beige.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 8:10pm

You see? secret-soul proved my point very well. If a show is big and popular, diss it and will it's actors and production team out of work. Claim you would rather see these people go unemployed than work on a show the public has chosen to enjoy. It is cool.

Personally, Pippin is my least favorite Schwartz score, but I don't understand all the people who say Wicked sounds like his 70s scores. Listen to Godspell, then listen to Wicked. The same? Uh, no. Completely different.

[secret-soul]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 8:14pm

That's unfair. I DO NOT wish or wish to will these hard-working people out of a job. I simply wish they had found a different one. Trust me, I NEVER want to see a true theatre person out of work and I hope they all find work when THAT show eventually closes.

[CurtainUp]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 8:47pm

"Because dissing the popular show on Broadway makes you look cool". If I wanted to look cool, I'd say I love it as much as my friends do. Can't I just dislike a show, because I...dislike it?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 8:55pm

No, because it's easier to dismiss other people's opinions (and not actually engage with them) by saying they're just saying what they're saying to be cool.

At what point did it become "cool" to not like Wicked, Matt? Because I didn't like it as early as 11/01/03, after all the "amazing" reports coming out of the San Francisco run got me totally psyched to see it. I just really wanna know if I was in on the ground floor of coolness.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 9:17pm

I honestly didn't think anyone would take me that seriosuly. Least of all Namo. You can love or hate anything you like. It's just funny how the people who don't like Wicked complain about all the "I love Wicked" posts and all the people who love Wicked complain about all the "I hate Wicked" posts. It's very amusing.

And it officially became cool not to like Wicked on Oct 30, 2003 at 11:15pm. You were almost on the cutting edge of Wicked coolness, but you were late a couple of days. Still, you were certainly one of the notable firsts. I commend you.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 10:40pm

So I disappear for half a day, and look what results? Tsk tsk, and we were having such a civilized argument.

First of all, Musetta, what was with that repetitive post? I didn't get the irony.

Now to broadway86: Avenue Q DID deserve the Tony for Best Musical, for a myriad of reasons that I've outlined in other threads. But let's not drag the "Q vs. Wicked" debate into THIS thread, we're focusing on Wicked here.

And now to becky: "And I pointed out that when Les Mis had been open the amount of time WICKED has, it didn't either."

I'm talking about the material itself. Les Miz has the "power and universality" that I wrote about at length already; it's a very special musical because it deals with a lot of really large, sweeping themes. Wicked doesn't, nor was does it have the intention of doing so. It's like comparing Hamlet and 'Noises Off!. No matter how long Wicked lasts, it'll never be a Les Miz, and won't be seen on equal ground as Les Miz.

secret-soul: I agree. I'm a little intrigued by the idea of high school productions of Cats....maybe then people will finally realize what a god-awful show it is.

[Musetta1957]

Posted: 6/13/04 at 11:58pm

"First of all, Musetta, what was with that repetitive post? I didn't get the irony."

I was translating the txt tlk.

[boborunstheshow]

Posted: 6/14/04 at 12:46am

thats really kinda all she does anymore...