What went wrong with Shuffle Along?- Page 2
What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
#25What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 2:02pm
True, true, Gaveston - we are an exceptionally territorial, acquisitive, and selfish species, living in terror that someone will take away something that we think "belongs" to us.
Music is music; it all belongs to everyone. No group ever "owned" syncopation, just as China doesn't "own" the pentatonic scale, nor the Irish 6/8 time.
#26What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 2:09pm
I had forgotten about that silly "Bali Hai" claim; the intervals are the same for the first three notes (an octave jump up followed by a 1/2 step down), but the rhythm and relationship to the key are completely different. In "Rainbow" it's Do Do Ti; in "Bali" it's Sol Sol Fi. Completely different in essence. Somewhat akin to a homonym - saying that "made' and "maid" mean the same thing because they sound alike.
What this country really needs is more music education.
KateSam
Understudy Joined: 9/24/16
#27What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 3:55pm
Meh Might have been too strong a word. I liked it . But the book was awful. Thought direction was unfocused. I keep feeling if it had an out of town. It would have been able to focus on the characters. There were some amazing scenes and the chirography was great. But I felt they needed some laser sharp focus.
KateSam
Understudy Joined: 9/24/16
#28What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 3:57pm
newintown said: "I had forgotten about that silly "Bali Hai" claim; the intervals are the same for the first three notes (an octave jump up followed by a 1/2 step down), but the rhythm and relationship to the key are completely different. In "Rainbow" it's Do Do Ti; in "Bali" it's Sol Sol Fi. Completely different in essence. Somewhat akin to a homonym - saying that "made' and "maid" mean the same thing because they sound alike.
What this country really needs is more music education.
I am not from the usa. But I think that the USA needs to fund more theater music and the arts in general. I feel also the USA needs to help the poor more
"
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#30What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 4:18pm
My prediction: Thirty years from now, it will be revered, like Follies.
#31What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 4:29pm
I doubt it. There was nothing singularly jaw dropping about it- except for maybe the sheer stamina those dancers had to summon to execute that foot numbing choreography. There weren't ever die hard passionate supporters of the musical they way FOLLIES had.
#32What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 4:33pm
Did anything really go wrong with it? Yes, it closed early because it needed a star to survive, but otherwise it got some pretty strong reviews and multiple Tony nominations. It's not like it was a total flop from every angle.
I understand the critiques of the piece and don't disagree with them, but this for me was still a thrilling evening of theatre. For all the largely deserved talk Hamilton has received for its diverse casting and story approach, Shuffle Along was an actual celebration of black artistry and achievement in an industry that rarely celebrates it, or at least not to such a degree. I feel very lucky to have seen it, and I do really wish it were still playing and could be seen by more people.
#33What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 8:22pm
"My prediction: Thirty years from now, it will be revered, like Follies."
It's very difficult to love a piece without cast recording. I was crying after the show, the 2nd Act was very heavy - and with good reason. I do remember feeling like I had wasted my money after the 1st Act, but it was more than made up by a strong 2nd Act.
#34What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 9:18pm
I think saying it will attain FOLLIES level legend is probably far fetched. Granted I didn't see it but it doesn't seem to have "wowed" many like FOLLIES did.
Agree with Valentina that lack of a cast album will deter any future love. Some have argued that the FOLLIES cast album was integral to its mystique, especially in truncated form.
Did FOLLIES receive similar reception in 1971? Of course there was no BWW but many of our members were around then.
#35What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 9:43pm
i saw it and thought it was very good. a little long and meandering like some have said. the dancing was fantastic and so was Audra, and i went in without knowing most of the score and adored it. It did too much telling and not enough showing. Adrienne Warren was fabulous and i loved her songs I'm Just Simply Full of Jazz and I'm Craving for That Kind of Love (and i'd like a recording of the show specifically for the notes she sang at the end of that song).
I guess what technically "went wrong" was Audra getting pregnant. Clearly Rudin didn't trust the show to survive without her and he may have been right. Rhiannon Giddens is fantastic and probably would have been a great replacement. I guess we'll never know. I hope rumors of a recording come true (someone said after a certain number of weeks they no longer have to pay the cast the same salary as they do when the show is running).
#36What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 9/30/16 at 10:52pm
To quote Evita, the show "didn't say much but it said it loud"
#37What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/1/16 at 7:01pm
Some have also argued that casting Audra to begin with was their biggest mistake.
#38What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/1/16 at 10:21pm
newintown said: "
What this country really needs is more music education.
"
Never mind. On second reading, I've decided you weren't chastising me, but augmenting my deliberately facetious example.
I agree nobody can own "syncopation", no more than anyone owns the key of F#. But at the time of SHUFFLE ALONG, black composers such as Fats Waller were being paid peanuts (and were even forced to give up their copyrights) for compositions that made white producers and singers very, very rich. Surely we can understand that African-Americans in general felt their art forms were "stolen". (Or "coopted", if that sounds more to the point.)
Even today, few people realize that something as white bread as THE MUSIC MAN wouldn't exist in the same form without the precedent of SHUFFLE ALONG. (This is not a slap against MUSIC MAN, a show I love, and I certainly don't think Meredith Willson was paging through Eubie Blake's work looking for rhythmic patters to steal.)
BIG BALONEY
Leading Actor Joined: 6/21/03
#39What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/1/16 at 11:49pm
The producer should be ashamed of himself and anyone who invests with him again needs their head examined.
#40What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 3:56am
ehh the man has 12 Tonys including four from the past year, I'm sure they'll be fine.
#41What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 4:54am
Mr. Nowack said: "Some have also argued that casting Audra to begin with was their biggest mistake."
Would it have ran, then, though? Because what went wrong was the lack of a big enough replacement to fill Audra's clout. Who could they have hired who would have been able to commit to a long run and has the same level of fame that Audra possesses? I can't think of anybody realistically. Hiring a replacement, especially a big star replacement, is easier, because they don't need to commit to a year contract. They kind of needed Audra to get the show off of the ground in a way.
#42What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 5:27am
But should Audra's character have been the draw? From what I know about the piece it was written around the four leading men. If her character was played by a less well known actress perhaps her leaving wouldn't have hurt the show so much. Even the advertising was like "see Audra! in a supporting role but it's Audra!!"
These are all wild hypotheticals. As you say without her draw factor it could've flopped even quicker.
What if, what if, what if, what if
#43What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 5:35am
No, Audra's character absolutely should not have been the draw. I see what you mean by your original post now.
#44What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 5:50am
Always happy to clarify!
#45What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 9:01am
KateSam said:
I am not from the usa. But I think that the USA needs to fund more theater music and the arts in general. I feel also the USA needs to help the poor more
Is Sue Storm back ?
And thank you New. for sharing your musical knowledge==I am constantly amazed by how little I know.
SL..............x
"
#46What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 9:37am
I understand that it was the behind the scenes story of the people involved in the original musical, but it was following too many people which caused it to go on for too long and prevent us from getting fully connected to any of the characters.
behindthescenes2
Stand-by Joined: 7/30/12
#47What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 2:12pm
Everything, but first trying to put Audra in an ensemble piece where once she realized she wasn't the star and she had other women to compete with - the Josephine Baker character, and changing the balance of the story to suit that ego was truly the cause of the ensemble to go off kilter. She won't do ensemble - she's the star! It might have made it as an ensemble piece without her in it the other actors had the ability to do it. Isn't it enough to be able to bring these fabled people to life without having an extreme layer of ego put into it? Weren't these people historically and artistically interesting enough to want to see? You would think so. Isn't it hard enough to have the chance to give actors who have so much going against them a moment to shine without appeasing her? Long gone are the days of her just wanting to act and sing and be true to the piece - just ask those in Porgy - Summertime isn't her characters song, but she sang it on the Tonys - no sharing the spotlight for a fellow actor, who might at that moment been brilliant for the world to see on that telecast.
She wanted to make sure she was going to be nominated for another Tony - it didn't happen and neither did the show.
ageorges3
Understudy Joined: 3/20/12
#48What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 6:20pm
Wish I'd been able to see Shuffle, and wish it was still running today! Audra's salary, Stokes' salary, Porters salary, and a host of other variable probably came into play. That entire company was amazingly talented, and its an unfortunate balancing act with shows produced in a capitalist system (very different overseas where certain theaters are funded with public resources and big name stars often agree to do a show at a lower fee for the sake of art) - you have to reward their talent and commitment to your project instead of the many other projects they likely had been offered, but it has to balance out with costs met.
In a theater that size and costs on that scale (don't have actual dollar figures to give here unfortunately, don't know specifics about those numbers, but as a matter of deductive reasoning, it stands to reason that operating costs were high), it likely meant sold out houses during the future of the show's run, and the advance probably wasn't that optimistic. Even with a show like this, it's tough managing for the uncontrollable: how the general theatergoers and tourists that make up a large part of Broadway ticket purchases decide to see one show instead of another.
The Other One
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/08
#49What went wrong with Shuffle Along?
Posted: 10/2/16 at 8:03pm
Good heavens, behindthescenes2, aren't you assuming an awful lot?!
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