Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Isn't A Believable Piece Of Theatre
Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Isn't A Believable Piece Of Theatre
#1Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Isn't A Believable Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 1:17pm
They expect us to believe that Raoul is the brains of the bunch.
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
Updated On: 6/16/09 at 01:17 PM
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#2re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 1:23pmSchmergie...usually I adore you. But I must say: Huh?
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
AndAllThatJazz22
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/8/08
#2re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 1:24pm?
"There's nothing good on. The media hates Christmas. The media loves vampires, though. Maybe they will show a Twilight Christmas."
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
JasonM12480
Broadway Star Joined: 3/17/05
#3re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 1:25pmOf course it works as a piece of theater. It's worked as a piece of theater for 20+ years. Something must work about it.
#4re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 1:27pmI was just gonna say. It may not be popular in some circles, but they're doing something right.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
Mekroth
Broadway Star Joined: 2/23/08
#5re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 1:30pmWell, I thought it was funny...
#6re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:01pm
No, I was just thinking this morning that I love The Phantom of the Opera, but there's something about the way the characters behave and interact that bothers me... and I just realized what it is.
It's that Raoul-- Raoul of all people-- is the voice of reason in this show. I mean, I love Raoul, but the way you love a pink poodle that limps.
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
eatlasagna
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/6/04
#7re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:10pmi never understood the character of Raoul... he just seemed so useless...
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#8re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:11pm
Has someone been studying too hard for their final exams?
I am even MORE confused now!
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#9re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:12pm
I mean, in Phantom, the characters exist to fulfill purposes. They don't have traits-- well, except for the Phantom being seductive and homicidal. So Raoul's there to be an example of a healthy relationship for Christine and a fairly dashing guy... but his personality traits are the traits of the actors.
And usually, Raoul has minimal charisma and comes off as weak and foppish... which means that when he's the only character who says anything sensible, it's pretty easy to ignore him. He's the one who realizes that the Phantom is a sick twisted freak who should be stopped... not indulged, or worshipped, or condoned, and definitely not Christine's dad.
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
Updated On: 6/16/09 at 02:12 PM
#10re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:16pm
Of course the PHANTOM characters aren't people. They're dolls. Pretty pretty dolls. But the romantic atmosphere makes up for it.
(incidentally, the actor I saw as Raoul - Tim Martin Gleason - oozed charisma all over the place. He was incredibly loveable. And it helped his case that Howard McGillan's Phantom was a twitching, asexual mess.)
"Y'know, I think Bertolt Brecht was rolling in his grave."
-Nellie McKay on the 2006 Broadway production of The Threepenny Opera, in which she played Polly Peachum
Updated On: 6/16/09 at 02:16 PM
-Nellie McKay on the 2006 Broadway production of The Threepenny Opera, in which she played Polly Peachum
#11re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:19pm
And it helped that Howard McGillan's Phantom was a twitching, asexual mess.
Haha! His voice is a bit throat-shredding sounding, too...
Yeah, Bustopher, I've always seen the characters as dolls, too-- which I guess is why they're so popular for fanfiction; people can just project traits onto them. But I just realized yesterday when listening to my OBCR that Raoul's the only remotely sensible one! And... he's the one I've always made fun of the MOST!
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
#12re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:32pm
Well, if Mr. Webber's comfort with character complexity in past shows are any indication, the PHANTOM sequel (because I REFUSE to use the subtitle) will feature Raoul as the "comic drunk."
His job will be to sing badly and chase women, and he will be played by Byron Jennings.
"Y'know, I think Bertolt Brecht was rolling in his grave."
-Nellie McKay on the 2006 Broadway production of The Threepenny Opera, in which she played Polly Peachum
-Nellie McKay on the 2006 Broadway production of The Threepenny Opera, in which she played Polly Peachum
ThankstoPhantom
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/13/05
#13re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:57pmThis show's been on my mind a lot lately... it's actually one of the most moving musicals ever...think about it. It's about emotion, love, growing up, and letting go. Michael Kunze says it the best, when he says theatre that makes the crust around the heart disappear for a time and makes us reflect on the beauty and melancholy in our own lives is an addictive thing. And that is why people keep going back to shows like PHANTOM. I can't wait to see it again; truly it is magnificent as a production.
How to properly use its/it's:
Its is the possessive. It's is the contraction for it is...
#14re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 2:58pm
ThanksToPhantom-- I really like Phantom of the Opera. I think the songs are gorgeous, and visually, it's lovely. "Notes/Prima Donna" is one of my favorite songs. But I think it's the characters that prevent Phantom from being one of my favorite shows.
Bustopher--Okay, I am laughing so hard, because I'm totaly picturing Thenardier from Les Miserables...
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
Updated On: 6/16/09 at 02:58 PM
#15re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 3:25pm
But I just realized yesterday when listening to my OBCR that Raoul's the only remotely sensible one! And... he's the one I've always made fun of the MOST!
There is no OBCR. Bootleg??? Tisk... Tisk.
#16re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 3:33pmSorry! Force of habit! It's actually the Canadian cast with Colm "Sorry, I spat cottage cheese on you while singing" Wilkinson.
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
ulkis
Chorus Member Joined: 6/5/06
#17re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 3:48pmNo character in "Phantom" has a personality except, well, the Phantom. It always confuses me when people say that Raoul is boring. And Christine is just excitement personified?
Borstalboy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
#18re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 3:49pmEverybody needs to just SHUT UP when it comes to the most successful documentary musical EVER!!!
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
Spider Woman
Understudy Joined: 7/4/08
#19re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 7:35pmI love Phantom, but Christine annoys me to no end.... such a ninny. I feel the same way about Cosette - ninny.
#20re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 7:55pmwell in the book Raoul is whiny bitch that cries about everything. Like I always say...I bet if Christine farted he would cry because it was the most beautiful thing.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#21re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 8:17pmWow..... with all this negativity and criticism, I wonder if PHANTOM will ever turn a profit.
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#22re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 8:39pm
I feel the same way about Cosette - ninny.
I feel like Cosette's underdeveloped in the musical because the writers wasted too much time dwelling on Eponine, every thirteen-year-old girl's favorite character. Granted, Cosette's kind of a ninny in the book, too, but I think the musical could have shown more of the interaction between Marius and Cosette. Their relationship in the book feels believable to me, and Hugo shows just what makes Marius so in love with Cosette. Here it's, "Wow, you're pretty, I'll break into your yard so we can sing one song and kiss."
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
#23re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 11:32pm
Did somebody say pretty pretty dolls?
(incidentally, the actor I saw as Raoul - Tim Martin Gleason - oozed charisma all over the place. He was incredibly loveable. And it helped his case that Howard McGillan's Phantom was a twitching, asexual mess.)
Get out of my head, Bustopher! I liked McGillin's Phantom because he seemed to play the character as close to Leroux's vision as possible (far more scary than sexy). But Gleason was, indeed, absolutely charming, and he convincingly portrayed Raoul with a sincere heart and as a moral compass (not an easy feat given the flimsy role). As I left the Majestic that night, I was even more convinced that "Phantom 2: Electric Boogaloo" would be an injustice. Not only would that last scene illustrating the Phantom's redemption be completely negated, but on top of that - poor sweet and brave Raoul, reduced to an impotent drunkard!
Ah, Schmerg, that's probably the best description of Wilkinson's voice I've ever heard (and I do like him, though only as Valjean and not the Phantom). I must admit when I'm bored, I like to imagine him singing the Journey catalogue.
Updated On: 6/16/09 at 11:32 PM
eatlasagna
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/6/04
#24re: Why The Phantom Of The Opera Just Doesn't Work As A Piece Of Theatre
Posted: 6/16/09 at 11:46pmgoing back to Cosette... i felt that the cuts they made to the musical to make it shorter greatly affected Cosette the most... now whenever I hear the new version of IN MY LIFE i feel like she's just an even whinier brat who wants her way
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