Why are we such puritans?- Page 2

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:09pm

Totally F*CKed? Don't you mean Totally *cover mouth*

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:41pm

Actually Spork, you are wrong in this matter. The Head of the FCC is a Bush Appointee, Col. Powell's mouthed taped Son. He has almost ruined Radio. What is worse is how often you hear the Religious Right say those words in their own Homes! They actually don't really even represent those who are Religious most of the time. Many don't really care about the word, as long as it isn't on Sesame Street or Blues Clue. Some keep their kids home from school thinking, if my kids doesn't hear it out there,then they will ignore it if Dad or Mom says it right here at home. Or Aunt Martha, Macy Gray? I mean, it's a word. Breast, a medical term, a prime example of the ridiculous way our Govt. is being run by money and not logic.

I believe most kids who bothered to watch it, probably wouldn't catch the word as it was. If they did, it would die out, a week or so later. Even the F-word has several meanings, so why even bother with it all? In a few years, it will lose its appeal as the focus of what is bad, trying to cover up what really is going on in Churches, like money for Politics and Kiddie Porn.

Funny how you never hear much about these issue huh? It is because, if you want to keep up your attendance, you have to give the Congregation something to be mad about that won't hit them too much at home, know what I mean? Safe, easy topics, that they can use that have no significant impact on Society or stop the Business Machine, that thrives on over-population and unhappy folks who have many sins, that they believe the Churches can fix. Listen, not all are bad or carry on this agenda. Just the really rich ones gravitate to this because they have too much money that they say is for one thing but really, it is being funneled to some place else.

So sorry, but what we are enduring is a Political Trade off, under the Table deals between the FCC and some old folks with a whole lot of money and an agenda to keep going. Considering how much of a Hypocrite most of our Govt. Officials are, saying those very words on the Senate and Congressional Floor, maybe the FCC isn't doing such a good job after all?

It is also a money scam because even those few rich folks thinking they are buying their way to Heaven, Nirvana whatever by forcing Censorship to the xtreme, they still want some return. Like the tobacco companies being one of the biggest investors in stop smoking programs. They want to get it both ways but they don't want you to really know it. Those fines are going right into the Govt. War Chest, to help fund our little scrimish in Iraq.

So don't you think we should be getting some of this money back? Since we are the Govt.? At least we should be getting something for having to mince our words. Like our Parents did with those cuss jars, remember? Even if they were the ones who taught us to cuss in the first place? It is a waste. Fix Children's Broadcasting, take a few Child Development Classes instead of trying to control the English language or put it back in the stone-age of reasoning.

Nothing against you Spork, you just didn't know because they don't really want you to know too much.

[popular_elphie]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 9:13pm

I'd like to also add: why are some so mean? It's hilarious that people were tearing into stagegrrrl when she asked about a dress to wear to the Tonys, and in any picture of the group from her show, you can clearly see her.

People need to stop being so rude and jealous.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 9:18pm

Who is she?

[TVBoy]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 9:32pm

The performance was fine. Aside from the FCC, can you imagine the public outcry from viewers if CBS actually allowed those words to be aired? I'm all about free speech, but why piss off what little audience the Tony Awards has? Just be happy CBS even aired the show.

[Calvin]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 11:22pm

Most of those "public outcries" are really about 100-200 people who send tons of computer-generated form letters written by Brent Bozell or the American Family Association or some other nonsense group.

[TVBoy]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 11:29pm

Um, no. Have you ever worked at a television station and answered the phones when something -- a word or action -- mistakenly makes air? They are regular viewers (some with the all important Nielsen diary) who are truly offended. Usually they are parents, but that's not always the case.

You have to also consider that the network only hears about half of the complaints made. The affiliates take the beating. Affiliates are instructed to give out an 800-number to the CBS Broadcast Complaint Dept. Many of those viewers won't go that extra step in making the second call.

You say about 100-200 people. Sometimes each affiliate gets that many. I know, unfortunately I've taken some of those calls in the past.

Updated On: 6/11/07 at 11:29 PM

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 12:02am

The problem is that it will only piss off a few people, not the majority. Put it on NBC than. We have to learn some tolerance in this Country before it ruins us all.

Those people won't find their way into "Spring" anytime soon. If they do, heaven forbid!! Words are just expressions of thoughts and feelings. Not all feelings are good or reasonable but it is much worse, when we outlaw words and make people so repressed they end up as serial killers. Considering the popularity of Internet Porn with the Religious Right, they really are just pretending to be bothered by it most of the time, until of course they get pissed, then watch those cats fly!

So much easier to turn down the volume, since swear words are quite common in the Theatre, as well as many parts of the Media. I really doubt most of the viewers will really care. Yet if Theatres continue to feel so censured, it will never reach out much to a middle aged audience. It also would hardly be reflective of a younger culture. This kind of censorship is what is driving America back into the stone age.

I mean we have people saying Dinosaurs weren't real or were actually on the Ark! One would conclude that Dinosaurs were extinct before the time of the Ark was suppose to have happened. I don't know how anyone could ignore those huge skeletons in the Museums but just a simple example of what happens when we just appease the few or allow some to just "pretend" they are so good when we know otherwise. People were trying to get Harry Potter books banned because they said it promoted Witchcraft. Though all the hoodoo that Jesus supposedly did, that was a miracle, right? Please, we just have to speak out more against this rather than less before we do end up in a bad Orwell Novel. They'd burn books if they could, remember that. If I have to be tolerant of things I don't like, so does everyone else.

Why not instead just issue a warning? If the Tony's have a low viewer ship, that is because we really lack enough stages for Actress', Actor to perform on and the price can weed out the average American real quick in many parts of America.

I don't believe it is the lack of either talent or material, just space. I hope things change but it is difficult to pay attention to something you just can't relate to. I mean the Musical won best songwriting, so you would think if it won that many votes, those who frequent the theatre are a little more tolerant right? I am just tired of the FCC cashing in on the English language over such simple common words. It is just getting to be simply stupid and the complete wrong way to go here in America.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 12:08am

I'm hardly puritanical or in the religious right, but I really don't care for that word. (And yes, I know the origin of it ~ it started as an acronym/shorthand for British cops when writing citations for people whose charge was "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.) Especially when the same thing can be expressed without using it, which it usually can.

[TVBoy]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 12:09am

"Put it on NBC than."

That's silly. NBC, or ABC even, wouldn't allow it either. They all abide by the same standards and FCC guidelines.

Updated On: 6/12/07 at 12:09 AM

[kyleorlando]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 12:22am

Just out of curiosity... did we forget that this country was founded by the PURITANS?!?!?

Europe has gone through a couple of decades of dealing with "video nasties", movies that they felt had too much violence to be released to the general public. However, advances in sexuality have proceeded there.

America on the other hand has no problem with violence. It's the natural expression of sexuality this country has a problem with.



.....ohmigod. that sounded so bitter.

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 4:30am

Well remember those Puritans eat their own, so goes my previous explanation. Burned a bunch of Puritans at the stake I recall, who probably had no idea what Witchcraft really was to begin with. Christians would kill Jews, Catholics vs Christian. If there really was a hell to throw each other into, they could really sell tickets and make a killing at it on reality television. People paid to see Christians thrown to hungry Lions, I remind you of our glorious past. It is what happens when we let a lousy word drive us into a frenzy. So many bigger problems to deal with besides this one. Though many others followed for Freedom, from Religion and for different sorts of Religion. They just mentioned the Pilgrims because it was an easy story to tell. We were also told Columbus discovered America. Lots of our History lessons were completely flawed or without much merit but they told us it was true because it was all they knew at the time.

Those same Pilgrims fought against the founding Fathers to try and keep this Country as little Briton after leaving it. It took many years and a whole lot of arguing to put together a Constitution separate from Religion, so that we all can be free and show no favoritism to any one type of Religion which is why those Pilgrims came here. Then just so they could burn their own. Figure that one out?

Yes, I know NBC has the same censorship, they just might not take a bunch of chain phone calls as seriously. Lately NBC has shown more tolerance then it's competitors lately who cater too much to just one side and not all sides. There is a reason why Cable Shows are doing so well. Even 200 and you know some of those people aren't even watching the show and many are only doing what they are being told to do. Compared to all of those watching the show? In a million? How many more are pissed off that the Station forced them to alter their music to please those who wouldn't even bother to see the show to begin with? Again, compare it to those who could careless. I believe there are Mommy Censors on many television so that curse words don't get pronounced over the airwaves. Maybe they can advertise on your Station? Sounds like a good solution to me. Rather then try to control an entire Population from all walks of life that use the word and belief system.

You are catering to a unique group of people who are trying their best to control what we see or think. If your station gives into that and is forced to pay huge fines for missing something, then maybe some more public service announcement against too much censorship is in order? Perhaps those of us who prefer freedom of speech for all not just those we don't like should start calling in our complaints for the censorship. You hate your job now, it can go both ways.

I can live with the word, some words, like homophobia, intolerance, extreme censorship are just wrong in this day and age. I am not blaming CBS for censuring, just the whole F-word problem in general. Its a word with many meanings, get over it. Only the Muslim Countries we so put down have as much censorship as we do. You won't find it in Canada, most European Countries either. Like I said, turn down the volume, easy enough. If again, this Musical won best songwriting, those who actually buy the tickets supported it as well as the Academy. Come on we are talking about people who make sex a dirty word, even though so many of us engage in it. Some complaints just are without true merit. They put sex on television during the daytime or hasn't anyone even noticed this yet?

As for using other words. If they don't rhyme that isn't an option. Since so many Americans use it, whether you like it or not, it is a part of our vocabulary. You can use something else if you choose to but don't fine others who feel this word best describes their thoughts or feelings. We give words their power and definition. Why must anyone substitute one word for another if they both mean the same thing? I don't like avocado's, the mere mention of the word makes me cringe yet am I making you use something else? No, it's my problem and I can ignore others who use it because it is how they feel about it. We need to learn to keep this in mind more when we try to control others lives and speech.

It has to be fair for all not just some. If the show was on in the afternoons that would be different. Again, how many Nielson voters complained and how many actually represent the viewing public as a whole? Since it didn't get said, who complained? You were thinking the "word" even if it wasn't said out loud, so why bother with it?

I think Soap Operas are a bad influence as well as Desperate Housewives on Marriage in general, where are your complaints for these sort of shows? Beating a guy to a pulp in a Boxing or Wrestling Ring? If I have to put up with this stuff, why can't the rest of them cover their own ears for a few seconds so the rest of us can enjoy the whole show? Good time to refill your drinks, perhaps? Again, a warning should really be more than enough for everyone. That I can live with and is the best compromise I can think of that is fair to all.

I am all for ratings. You shouldn't have to be surprised by adult language but you do have the right to know ahead of time if maybe it isn't right for you or your children. Yet anything can be said during acceptance speeches as well. So if you are that worried about a word, than why are you watching a bunch of foul mouthed Entertainers who have to put up with a lot of crap just to please a bunch of people who could careless what you had to go through just to get on that stage? If swearing wasn't common in Theatre then maybe I could understand this but it is not only common but all over the streets.

It should be on A&E as it is. I guess it's too raw for network television these days so it seems.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 8:53am

Wow. So much misinformation on this thread. Let me correct a few that are recurring annoyances to me.

"Red State" - There is no such thing as a red or blue state and there never has been and there never will be.

"Puritans" - America was not settled by Puritans. It was settled by corporations. The Plymouth Rock folks were not Puritans.

"For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" - Pure urban legend. Sorry.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 9:00am

1. yes there are. Take a look at elections and where certain politicians' constituentcies are. Red and blue most certainly exist!

2. America was founded on the basis of "religious freedom." Conservative puritans were the first to land on Plimoth Rock.

3. Unlawful carnal knowledge still exists. You can still be arrested for having consesual gay sex in certain states. It's happened within the last ten years a few times.

Sad

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 9:39am

1)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Cartlinearlarge.png

That's what a REAL election map looks like. Point to the "Red State".

2)

First of all, America was founded by deists who valued religious freedom. At the time America was founded, there were no Puritans anywhere on Earth. We're talking about the settlement of America. And Plymouth Colony was not Puritan. The pilgrims at Plymouth were held seperatist beliefs, which were at odds with the loyalist Puritans. Besides, the Roundheads were in control of England at the time, so Puritans would have no need to leave the country. It's true that most of New England was settled by some large Puritan families, but after 1670, their influence dwindled to nearly nothing.

3)

I was just referring to the F.U.C.K. acronym myth. The word comes from a number of Germanic words meaning to strike or to thrust. (German 'fikken', middle dutch 'fokken', swedish 'focka', and norweigan 'fukka'.) The first clear use of "****" was in a 15th century poem called "Flen Flys".

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 9:45am

that may be the "real" election map, but you're forgetting the electoral college. Unfortunately, the popular vote means nothing in this country. It's how Bush won.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 9:56am

Big deal. I know how the electoral college works, but it pisses me off no end when people say "Red State" as if the state is one huge monolith of opinion. They look at the map and say "Oh, that state is RED. Everyone who lives there is an intolerant bigot who hates poor people!" "Oh, that state is BLUE, they're all wimps who want to let Islamists take over the country and let perverts run rampant!"

F*CK that. The terms "Red State" and "Blue State" exemplify everything that is wrong with American politics today.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 10:08am

Couldn't agree more! Unfortunate fact of life in America.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 10:13am

And yet you're the one who said that you hate the Red States. Not attacking you, just showing that even a sensible person can get swept up in this crap.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 10:22am

you're right :) I tend to get passionate and swept up in a lot of things.

Glad you think I'm sensible though

[Calvin]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 10:58am

Um, no. Have you ever worked at a television station and answered the phones when something -- a word or action -- mistakenly makes air?

Actually -- yes I have. But those people, in the end, are irrelevant. They gripe, but the TV will be back on tomorrow so they can catch up on their stories.

I'm talking about the people who would take the time to file a complaint with the FCC. Even after the Janet Jackson thing, most of the complaints came from the same group of loudmouths.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 11:19am

EdmundOG: Well said.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 11:40am

"First of all, America was founded by deists who valued religious freedom. At the time America was founded, there were no Puritans anywhere on Earth. We're talking about the settlement of America. And Plymouth Colony was not Puritan. The pilgrims at Plymouth were held seperatist beliefs, which were at odds with the loyalist Puritans. Besides, the Roundheads were in control of England at the time, so Puritans would have no need to leave the country. It's true that most of New England was settled by some large Puritan families, but after 1670, their influence dwindled to nearly nothing."

America was settled in the 17th Century. I think you are confusing the settlement of the country with the founding of the U.S., which are about 150 years apart. They pretty much held religious beliefs that were non-conformist to the Church of England. However, this does not mean that they were liberal. They were in fact just as conservative in values.

The country wasn't actually founded until 1789, when governmental operations began under the COnstitution. It was these leaders who were Deists.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 12:17pm

That's what I said. I differentiated between founding and settling in my post, though I guess I could have been more clear.

[raphael06]

Posted: 6/12/07 at 12:40pm

Totally F*cked was absolutely absurd the way it was edited. At the end of the song when they just sang "totally" I laughed. They should have done Purple Summer or My Junk or another song that would not have been an issue.