#51
Posted: 8/1/03 at 3:53pm
Erik-Like namo's, your post is interesting. I'm giving it more thought.
kinda OT :: Gay HS in NYC/ Queer Eye mention of Regis and Kelly — Page 3
#52
Posted: 8/1/03 at 4:11pm
I was just thinking-perhaps other students who are in danger of suicide, or rejected by their families, who are homeless or who fall into the other categories you mentioned could also be included in this school even if they aren't gay. I'd love that.
#53
Posted: 8/2/03 at 12:35am
luluhed--I think that is a great idea. The Harvey Milk school or schools like it should ideally take in all students who need help.
#54
Posted: 8/2/03 at 9:44am
I just read this article from the Advocate about the 80 people filing suit against the Harvey Milk school. It shows how hypocritial some anti-gay people are.
A.) They say that becasue it is for gay students, it is discriminatory on the basis of sexual orientation -- this coming from a mamber of a political party who think people should be denied certain things or be disqualified from some things based on the fact that they are gay.
B.) A priest says it is not like having a school for handicapped people becasue gay people are NORMAL people and therefore, can't have a seperate school. Mind you, any other time, they say that gay men and woman are not normal.
NYC officials defend plans for gay high school
A.) They say that becasue it is for gay students, it is discriminatory on the basis of sexual orientation -- this coming from a mamber of a political party who think people should be denied certain things or be disqualified from some things based on the fact that they are gay.
B.) A priest says it is not like having a school for handicapped people becasue gay people are NORMAL people and therefore, can't have a seperate school. Mind you, any other time, they say that gay men and woman are not normal.
NYC officials defend plans for gay high school
#55
Posted: 8/2/03 at 10:59am
omg--I hope they DO sue on those grounds! Then, their words can be used against them. I'm amazed at the depth of prejudice some people in this country have against gays and lesbians!
#56
Posted: 9/10/03 at 8:39am
Here's a good article in the Village Voice that discusses why this school is necessary:
"The School Hate Built"
"The School Hate Built"
Twitter @NamoInExile
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Updated On: 9/10/03 at 08:39 AM
#57
Posted: 9/10/03 at 9:15am
My only fear is …what happens when High School ends and these students have to enter “the real world”…
they have been living in this hate free cushion of love and support
…but the real world will probably not be like that… College may not be like that… Life may not be like that….
It’s sort of similar to what happens to the “Popular” kids when they leave High School. They go to college and they are a very small fish in a very big pond with their support system annihilated…
True, in some cases college opens a whole new supportive world to gay students but not always.
I would much rather see a law passed that protect gay/lesbian students from harm on school grounds meaning if someone beats them up, the school, by law, would be forced to expel the student and if the student is beat up and the school does nothing about it then the school is breaking the law!
Great thing about this is it would help to reduce any violence in the school to anyone…not just gays and lesbians
I mean fat kids, unnattractive kids, hell, even short kids, who are straight get picked on too..
Someone beats you up…you report it…and the kids are suspended or expelled…
If schools stood to lose something or had to spend money paying off fines, you better believe this would be enforced.
they have been living in this hate free cushion of love and support
…but the real world will probably not be like that… College may not be like that… Life may not be like that….
It’s sort of similar to what happens to the “Popular” kids when they leave High School. They go to college and they are a very small fish in a very big pond with their support system annihilated…
True, in some cases college opens a whole new supportive world to gay students but not always.
I would much rather see a law passed that protect gay/lesbian students from harm on school grounds meaning if someone beats them up, the school, by law, would be forced to expel the student and if the student is beat up and the school does nothing about it then the school is breaking the law!
Great thing about this is it would help to reduce any violence in the school to anyone…not just gays and lesbians
I mean fat kids, unnattractive kids, hell, even short kids, who are straight get picked on too..
Someone beats you up…you report it…and the kids are suspended or expelled…
If schools stood to lose something or had to spend money paying off fines, you better believe this would be enforced.
#58
Posted: 9/10/03 at 9:18am
Re: Phelps' Army of hate...Where's a drug-war shoot-out when you MOST need it?
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
#59
Posted: 9/10/03 at 9:19am
The article actually touches on these things, including an example of what happened for one guy after graduation. It also talks about how most of the abuse happens out of the view of adults. By the time graduation comes around, these people are almost adults, with much more freedom and mobility.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#60
Posted: 9/10/03 at 9:42am
Exactly. The beauty of the "real world", college included, is that you have much more choice of who you want to surround yourself with. So the chance of these kids graduating the Harvey Milk school and not being able to handle prejudice in the real world seems very slim.
#61
Posted: 9/10/03 at 9:56am
Ok...so when do they open the "Mama Cass school for fat kids"...
Or the "Barbra school for big nosed girls"...
Or "The Tom Cruise School for men under 5'5"...
The minute we isolate ourselves and the minute we believe we are the only ones who are harrased in life is the minute we take four steps back to 1981.
Or the "Barbra school for big nosed girls"...
Or "The Tom Cruise School for men under 5'5"...
The minute we isolate ourselves and the minute we believe we are the only ones who are harrased in life is the minute we take four steps back to 1981.
Updated On: 9/10/03 at 09:56 AM
#62
Posted: 9/10/03 at 10:17am
Honestly, and I am not just saying this because I may or may not think you are a dork, but that really is the sort of argument my dead father might have come up with, may Beelzebub rest his soul. The big difference between you and he -- I assume -- is that he was born in the first half of the 20th century.
As I said earlier in the thread, the Harvey Milk school is a last ditch place for kids whose only other option is to drop out, runaway or be thrown out. Very, very few young people are rejected by their family and thrown out of their houses over the size of their noses or their height or weight.
As I said earlier in the thread, the Harvey Milk school is a last ditch place for kids whose only other option is to drop out, runaway or be thrown out. Very, very few young people are rejected by their family and thrown out of their houses over the size of their noses or their height or weight.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#63
Posted: 9/10/03 at 10:35am
As longs as it's kept as a last ditch school then fine..
...but if these kids are thrown out of their homes ..that's bringing up a whole other issue...
And remember, rejection comes in all sorts of forms to all sorts of people and you don't have to be thrown out of your house to be made to feel like dirt...remember:
"If a girl isn't pretty/like a Miss. Atlantic City/all she get's from life is pity and a pat..."...
...but if these kids are thrown out of their homes ..that's bringing up a whole other issue...
And remember, rejection comes in all sorts of forms to all sorts of people and you don't have to be thrown out of your house to be made to feel like dirt...remember:
"If a girl isn't pretty/like a Miss. Atlantic City/all she get's from life is pity and a pat..."...
Updated On: 9/10/03 at 10:35 AM
#64
Posted: 9/10/03 at 11:49am
I think theres a big difference between being teased and tormented. Teasing happens all the time in schools to overweight kids..or nerdy kids..or goth kids..whatever. But more often than not, the teasing crosses a line with gay kids into something that shouldn't be tolerated or condoned in our school systems.
When I was growing up gay in my public school, I was tormented..I was constantly harassed by a group of guys in a much more severe way than overweight kids were teased. In fact, my best friend was overweight and never was harrassed like me..It got to the point to where I would skip school regularly and I never went to gym class. Thirty years later, I'm still affected in some ways by the years of abuse I suffered in school.
I honestly believe my life would have been much different if I attended a gay school...or even better if the teachers/administrators started doing something about this, rather than looking the other way. Perhaps some teasing builds character, but being constantly tormented destroys it.
When I was growing up gay in my public school, I was tormented..I was constantly harassed by a group of guys in a much more severe way than overweight kids were teased. In fact, my best friend was overweight and never was harrassed like me..It got to the point to where I would skip school regularly and I never went to gym class. Thirty years later, I'm still affected in some ways by the years of abuse I suffered in school.
I honestly believe my life would have been much different if I attended a gay school...or even better if the teachers/administrators started doing something about this, rather than looking the other way. Perhaps some teasing builds character, but being constantly tormented destroys it.
#65
Posted: 9/10/03 at 11:56am
I feel like I am in a support group when I say, "Thanks for sharing that Peter." But I mean it. All the "common sense/gut instinct" reponses that the Harvey Milk School topic brings up in some people clearly misses the specific nuances of the awful experiences that some young people are forced to go through over something as simple as who they are. I'm not naming names, but certainly some people who should know better MUST know what it's like not to be able to butch it up enough to pass, which is the first thing people react to and that starts the abuse cycle.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#66
Posted: 9/10/03 at 12:11pm
so... should there be a gay school in every town..every state...
is that the answer or..
would a law protecting students from any violence....all students...and holding schools and teachers accountable..make more sense...
My High School days were not rosy as well..far from it....and of course they have affect on you later in life...but you get over it and move on...
in fact, I am actually on very good terms now with some people from back then...(who knew)!
I applaud anything that helps kids..any kind of kid..but I think a nationwide law is more effective than a school in New York City that a gay kid in Upper Sandusky or Montana can not go to..
is that the answer or..
would a law protecting students from any violence....all students...and holding schools and teachers accountable..make more sense...
My High School days were not rosy as well..far from it....and of course they have affect on you later in life...but you get over it and move on...
in fact, I am actually on very good terms now with some people from back then...(who knew)!
I applaud anything that helps kids..any kind of kid..but I think a nationwide law is more effective than a school in New York City that a gay kid in Upper Sandusky or Montana can not go to..
Updated On: 9/10/03 at 12:11 PM
#67
Posted: 9/10/03 at 12:46pm
Legal policy does set a tone in a culture that can contribute to practical change over time. The need for policy change and the need for some people to have safe space are not mutually exclusive. Both things are true and necessary, but it is profoundly American to see things as either/or. "There shouldn't be a special high school, there should be a law." Well, there should be both until neither is technically necessary.
Until such time as laws change and take effect and are in place long enough to influence the behaviors of would-be criminals (a process that would take generations) yes, there should be safe spaces for everybody. The Harvey Milk School serves as a model for any district that cares enough for its oppressed students to try to salvage their educations. This would include Sandusky, Ohio. Again, I would urge you to avoid the either/or dichotomy. "If they can't have it in Montana, they shouldn't have it in New York City."
Gay bashings still happen in cities and states that have gay rights laws and hate crime laws. People intent on gay bashing do not tend to stop during mid-punch-throw and say to themselves, "I better not. There's a law."
P.S. I would seriously caution you against generalizing from your specific high school experience to "but you get over it and move on...." Well, YOU might have, but different people have entirely different psychological make-ups and really are permanently damaged by trauma. Again, it's particularly American to think that anything you accomplished can just as easily be accomplished by anybody else.
Until such time as laws change and take effect and are in place long enough to influence the behaviors of would-be criminals (a process that would take generations) yes, there should be safe spaces for everybody. The Harvey Milk School serves as a model for any district that cares enough for its oppressed students to try to salvage their educations. This would include Sandusky, Ohio. Again, I would urge you to avoid the either/or dichotomy. "If they can't have it in Montana, they shouldn't have it in New York City."
Gay bashings still happen in cities and states that have gay rights laws and hate crime laws. People intent on gay bashing do not tend to stop during mid-punch-throw and say to themselves, "I better not. There's a law."
P.S. I would seriously caution you against generalizing from your specific high school experience to "but you get over it and move on...." Well, YOU might have, but different people have entirely different psychological make-ups and really are permanently damaged by trauma. Again, it's particularly American to think that anything you accomplished can just as easily be accomplished by anybody else.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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Updated On: 9/10/03 at 12:46 PM
#68
Posted: 9/10/03 at 1:04pm
Not Sandusky.....Upper Sandusky...
Please don't generalize Sanduskys...
There IS a difference, you know...!!
Please don't generalize Sanduskys...
There IS a difference, you know...!!
Updated On: 9/10/03 at 01:04 PM
#69
Posted: 9/10/03 at 1:59pm
GLSTN. Google it.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#70
Posted: 9/11/03 at 11:42am
there has been a gay sensitive high school in Manhattan for several years now..............
I love the show Queer Eye for The Straight Guy
BUT...
I still am puzzled at the awful appearance they made on the MTV awards...........Look at the tape of their appearance again....I can't believe how awkward and somewhat offensive some of the stuff they said was......No one involved on that show, and none of the Queer guys knew how stupid the lines they were saying sounded??????????????
I love the show Queer Eye for The Straight Guy
BUT...
I still am puzzled at the awful appearance they made on the MTV awards...........Look at the tape of their appearance again....I can't believe how awkward and somewhat offensive some of the stuff they said was......No one involved on that show, and none of the Queer guys knew how stupid the lines they were saying sounded??????????????
"MAY YOUR LIFE BE AS BRIGHT AS BROADWAY AT NIGHT"
#71
Posted: 9/11/03 at 7:33pm
Okay, do people just not READ the threads they contribute to? There's been a gay sensitive high school in Manhattan for years? Really? That's the one we've been posting about!
But hey, here's a reason to bring up an MTV appearance by the Fab 5 again!
But hey, here's a reason to bring up an MTV appearance by the Fab 5 again!
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#72
Posted: 9/11/03 at 11:30pm
Monday night, watching the news, I was assaulted with images of a crowd of protesters holding signs and yelling out their messages of hate toward a group of teenagers who just wanted to go to school in peace and get an education. The protesters came from other states, brought their children, who were holding some of the most disgustingly hateful signs I have ever seen. And they were not referring to the issue of segregated schools, they were protesting the lifestyle.
Somehow I don't think they would have showed up to protest a school for "fat kids".
So, seems to me these gay students are not experiencing the same torment as the other kids. And a few weeks ago, when the news of the school came out, my first thought was "Gee, segregation, bad idea". But seeing and hearing all that hate, as well as reading the various posts in this thread, has really brought these issues, and what these kids go through, to light for me. I really hope these kids will now be able to get the education they deserve.
Somehow I don't think they would have showed up to protest a school for "fat kids".
So, seems to me these gay students are not experiencing the same torment as the other kids. And a few weeks ago, when the news of the school came out, my first thought was "Gee, segregation, bad idea". But seeing and hearing all that hate, as well as reading the various posts in this thread, has really brought these issues, and what these kids go through, to light for me. I really hope these kids will now be able to get the education they deserve.
#73
Posted: 9/11/03 at 11:31pm
Namo, what ToT was referring to does have some bearing on the subject at hand (albeit in a very roundabout way) . What America's favorite minstrel show was "joking" about was that "some of us LIKE to be hit!" I'm sure the gay kids who are tormented daily in schools across the country thought that was a laugh-riot.
Within the last two months, there was a story in the Guardian (U.K.) paper about a TEN YEAR OLD BOY who killed himself because he was bullied in school for "acting gay". I'd link it here, but I've looked for the article on the Guardian site, but I can't find it.
Within the last two months, there was a story in the Guardian (U.K.) paper about a TEN YEAR OLD BOY who killed himself because he was bullied in school for "acting gay". I'd link it here, but I've looked for the article on the Guardian site, but I can't find it.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
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