over-rated- Page 3

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 7:30am

See! I knew I'd be hearing from some cranky Sondheim fans with the "But you need TIME to appreciate him!!!" line. Well, kids, I've tried. Over and over and over again. I've given' ol Steve more than a fairt shake. And I'll certainly give BOUNCE a try. But like ANY OTHER COMPOSER, when he's good, he's very very good. But when he'd bad, well... he stinks.

I'm reminded of that great NEW YORKER cartoon from the 1940s (think it's Thurber, but I'm not certain):

Mother to little daughter at dinner table: "It's broccoli, dear!"

Daughter: "I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it!"

[scooter38432]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 7:43am

voiceanth...

I'm certainly aware that PHANTOM is not an opera.

There are segments in the show where Christine is required to sing opera, and KC did it flawlessly.

We talked, and she has an impressive opera repertoire.

Don't assume she can't do it just because you've never heard her do it. Her education was in classical voice.

I think the benefit of the doubt is in order.

[scooter38432]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 7:47am

I'm shocked to see Sondheim on this list. The intricacies of his melodies, harmonies and lyrics are so complex. You hear something new each and every time you listen. Unlike that of Jerry Herman and the (gag) ALW. With them, although they produce some good stuff, is basically "you've heard it once, you've heard it all".

Audra...
Didn't anyone see CAROUSEL, MASTER CLASS or RAGTIME? How can you say that she has no stage presence? She was riveting in all three shows, and IMHO, she deserved every Tony she won. (I didn't see MARIE CHRISTINE.)

[magruder]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 8:51am

Well, call him overrated if you want, but I'm just surprised to see that same old tripe about Sondheim not being able to write melody. Didn't that go out around 1972?

I submit the following:

"This is Nice"
"What More Do I Need?"
"Comedy Tonight"
"Lovely"
"There Won't Be Trumpets"
"Anyone Can Whistle"
"With So Little to Be Sure Of"
"I Remember"
"Take Me to the World"
"Side by Side"
"Being Alive"
"Too Many Mornings"
"Losing My Mind"
"All Things Bright and Beautiful"
"Send in the Clowns"
"The Sun Won't Set"
"A Weekend in the Country"
"Pretty Lady"
"Poems"
"My Friends"
"Johanna"
"Not While I'm Around"
"Old Friends"
"Not a Day Goes By"
"Like it Was"
"Our Time"
"Finishing the Hat"
"Move On"
"No One is Alone"
"Children Will Listen"
"Unworthy of Your Love"
"Happiness"
"Loving You"

Great songs, with reaching, sweeping melodies, and no, you don't need a degree in music or an understanding of chord clusters to appreciate them. Just an ear.

[BillyLawlor]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 10:41am

I'm adding Ethel Merman to my list. I listened to her sing some "Gypsy",and I wasn't really impressed. I also heard some of her "Annie Get Your GUn", and she just didn't do it for me. I think she is highly overrated.
As for Audra MacDonald, I'm shocked. The woman can SANG! I rented the Leading LAdies concert on PBS, and when she sang "Down With Love", I was staring at the TV open mouthed. She's amazing!

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 11:42am

Funny how the Sondheim snobs react whenever anyone so much as whispers that just maybe he's just like any other composer. Has good days and bad days. Strong scores and weak ones. Great songs and groaners. And no, the old 'tripe' about Sondheim having a problem with melody hasn't 'gone out since 1972'. Some of us still think he still has a real problem - a reluctance, even - to create wonderful melodies on a grand scale. I'm hardly an advocate of ALW or Wildhorn (I think his pop-shlock operas are swill), but for me Sondheim musicals have largely become the musical equivalent of All-Bran and Cod-liver oil: "You need to listen to this because it's GOOD for you!" And while some of the songs on magruder's list are truly magnificent and haunting, I find not a few to be melodically consitipated and monotonous. As Sammy Cahn would say: "Put 'em in a box, tie 'em with a ribbon and dump 'em in the deep blue sea!"

[Deannaizme]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 12:06pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like Mandy Patinkin. I don't like his singing voice. His acting was okay on that TV show he was on -- at the beginning.

~D

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 12:40pm

Hey MasterLcZ: You're not alone. Sondheim's work tends to leave me cold. I think 'Sweeney's great and I like the score to 'Assassins' but the rest of it I find to be dull and am hard-pressed to sit through most of his shows without looking at my watch. No, I am not a cretin and yes, I understand a lot of the subtleties he's doing in his score compositions. Which makes it interesting fodder for term papers, sure, but I don't think it necessarily makes for compelling theater. Others, of course, may react differently but I agree Sondheim's over-rated.

To me, most Sondheim shows turn into a bunch of middle-aged characters nit-picking one another. And that wears on me quickly.

[mother cabrini]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 12:53pm

knowing that there are readily available copies of barbra striesand singing "down with love" on "the judy garland show" im suprised that audra even contemplated trying to sing in it in the leading ladies concert....it was a mess...and she looked uncomfortable doing it.....it was a second rate version of a first rate song

[magruder]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 1:34pm

You misunderstand. Despite my little Anyone Can Whistle homage to the left, I am no Sondheim snob. And I love Arlen, Berlin, Rodgers, Styne, Herman, Rome, Porter et al. I like Sondheim's work, but I'm not militant about it. But you wrote: "And there aint a lot of melody in Sondheim. There just isn't." I think the list I posted proves there's plenty of melody in Sondheim. As far as dumping some of those songs in the Deep Blue Sea, as Sammy Cahn would suggest, well ... only if Cahn's score to Skyscraper is tossed in first.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 4:10pm

The funny thing is, magruder..I think Cahn would be the first to agree with you about Skyscraper!!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 4:58pm

DUANE READE said: I got the best one here:

JULIA MURNEY

She's never even been on Broadway and her "Wild Party" performance was beyond forgettable. Yes, she can sing, but she does not deserve the praise and attention that you all constantly give her. I wonder if she will EVER get to Broadway..."

So you mean you think Julia sucks? I don't get it. I think she's amazing, granted she hasn't been ON broadway, lol, but she would make an excellent Fanny in Funny Girl when the do the remake. And wasn't she in Dance of the Vampires for a while or did she drop that??

[Duane Reade]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 6:03pm

Finally! I was waiting for a Murney disciple to show up...

First of all, Fanny Brice is YOUNG in the first half of the show, so stop the madness. She looks 40. Just because she belted out "People" at that benefit (wonderfully) doesn't mean she's the right girl for the job. Ever seen her do slapstick comedy? Exactly.

I didn't say she sucks, but I did say that she's never amazing. Interpret that how you will. I interpret it as OVERRATED.

What did you think she was amazing in? Please detail it. Have you ever actually seen her in something or just heard her voice?

She dropped out of Vampires pre-rehearsals. So much for that elusive dream of a Broadway credit.

-DR

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 6:09pm

no, unfortunately I havent SEEN her in anything as I dont live in NYC.

Ofcourse heard her in Wild Party and she rocks the house. My friend also somehow had a live recording of Wild Party and Julia sounds exactly the same!

She was also in Class Act, wasn't that on broadway?

As for Funny Girl, ok Fanny suppposed to be young, so I made a mistake. But I DO like Julia.

[boydancer]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 7:30pm

AMEN.....I'm sick of the both of them....At least we still have CHITA, The Diva of Divas

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 7:50pm

When Judy Garland was taping the show with Barbra...the story goes:

Judy showed up to every rehersal (never the Judy norm) and watched the WHOLE show being taped, even the parts that did'nt require her(a rarity)...she never left the set for a moment when that termagent was tearing the paint of the walls with that talent...

(will there ever be a "Bewitched" sung like that again..NO!)

Judy knew........

Believe me, Judy would have left, popped open a bottle (booze or other) and hoisted a few upon hearing Audra's version...

[qpidsangel]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 7:55pm

Definetly Howard Keel. I cannot stand his work.

Also, [b]MasterLcZ[/b] about Sondheim, you posted your opinion about how you feel about Sondheim and another person posted their opinion. You don't need to argue with each other everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Or for that fact call people "Sondheim snobs" people may like and respect someone's work without being a snob. You may like Cole Porter but I can guarantee that there are people out there who don't like his work. It is all a matter of opinion. Personally I am totally in love with BOTH Sondheim and Porter, they are my two favorite composers.

Updated On: 7/9/03 at 07:55 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/9/03 at 8:34pm

Ooops! I forgot

Jason Alexander. Definitely overrated.

(Is any one keepting track of the votes? Might be an interesting analysis for the producers, lol. )


Yours for a better Broadway!

[alterego]

Posted: 7/10/03 at 3:48am

Bernadette Peters in Song and Dance, have you ever heard a worse Brittish accent? Ethel Merman was great, and a star of the type we don't get anymore, sadly, she was of the time.
Mandy Patinkin too is a dud, as they sing in Forbidden Broadway "Somewhat Over Indulgent". Updated On: 7/10/03 at 03:48 AM

[BialyBloomInc02]

Posted: 7/10/03 at 10:34am

Can't believe he wasn't mentioned!:) Colm Wilkinson! I mean the guy IS Jean Valjean, no doubt about it, and he was fantastic in that particular role, but other than that, his voice is overrated. I just don't understand how he's called a tenor, when really he is a high baritone with a good falsetto. I'll say his voice is unique and that I do truly enjoy him in Les Miz, but his Phantom was just overly exagerated in the falsetto department. Just my .02 cents-
Any thoughts..??

[Broadwaylady]

Posted: 7/10/03 at 4:07pm

Hank, Luluhed is right Harold's is the best. It is a restaurant deli off Route 3 in Lyndhurst, New Jersey. I was going to Rutt's Hut since high school. Nothing like Jersey food..

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/10/03 at 10:32pm

John Michael LaChuisa

We can't forget him, no matter that his musicals are easily so.

Yours for a better Broadway!

[aurora1958]

Posted: 7/10/03 at 11:58pm

Broadwayguy...how did I KNOW you were going to say Michael...

However I do agree with your other choices.

[aurora1958]

Posted: 7/11/03 at 12:10am

I think ALW is also over-rated to the point where he thinks he's the god of musical theatre. I like some of his stuff but, there certainly is better out there. But the others I thought were over rated have all been mentioned here,like Mandy Patinkin and Ethel Merman, and a couple I don't agree with, like Michael Crawford but I know I'm in a minority here but that's okay, but this is great fun!

[thirdrowcenter]

Posted: 7/11/03 at 9:36pm

In addition to Mandy Patinken, I'd like to add Al Pacino to the overrated list. I saw him recently in the Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui and I feel he is doing the same schtick over and over.