(Mass opinion is the show is going to flop,quickly.)
How many people have you polled regarding The Pirate Queen? Your statement is pretty harsh.
From what I understand...(with Chicago and NY) nearly one million people have seen the show...so what % of viewers consist in your interpretation of MASS. Not trying to be arguementative. I really would like to know where you have gotten your figures?
Grace giving birth and ten minutes later, in a blood-stained birthing gown, attempting to fight the English.
That is actually historically accurate, apparently. I do agree with you though--if I had gone in there without knowing that, I would've thought that was absolutely ridiculous.
I especially agree with you about the time between I Dismiss You & If I Said I Loved You...aka the fact that there is none.
Jason - Why do I think the creatives weren't able to see the flaws that were so obvious to you?
If I answered that question it would assume that I thought they didn't see them.
I know it's easy to be blind to faults when it's your own project that you're trying to fix but that is exactly where I think their experience and expertise comes in. I trust that they are wise enough to pick up on outside feedback and also to see for themselves what is working and what isn't. One of my friends who saw the show recently said she caught the producers feverishly taking notes and talking to the audience during intermission and after about their thoughts on specific parts of the show. I'll judge if they did a good job using what they learned from Chicago and NY previews for myself once I see it.
Popular...I agree with you totally. They did listen to the public and put into play much of what the viewers wished to see. It's just like that "Abe Lincoln" quote..."You can't please all of the people all of the time", and sister that's the truth.
"Grace giving birth and ten minutes later, in a blood-stained birthing gown, attempting to fight the English."
that is somewhat historically accurate. she actually fought the english a DAY later, not 10 minutes. but obviously they had to cut the time for the show...
i was wondering, does the show show her relationship with queen elizabeth I?? and does it have her cursing a lot, spitting (acting like a pirate...Lol), because in my World History class we learned about grace o'malley and from what i've heard the show is pretty accurate.
If the producers listened to the audience then maybe they should've gotten a more subjective group. I respect the writers, subject matter, and actors but something is coming up short. Mainly, character development! Shouldn't we as an audience feel drawn into the world of these people we are spending time with? Shouldn't we care about their struggles, at least in part suffer with them, and find their resolutions as the highlight of the evening? I have made it no secret that I disliked my four times at the Pirate Queen however my partner who is a fanatic has given me food for thought. So, I decided to look at what everyone has said and I do believe that is what is missing in this show...there is no real development and again..I don't see why Queen Elizabeth, a ruler of a country concern herself with a Pirate Queen when it would've been dealt with by others but that's history... I just feel that relationship and ending is without climax or any true sense of reality...in terms of musical theatre...
I'm not gonna hate you in the magazines,
(I'm better than that)
I'm not gonna compromise my Christianity,
(I'm better than that)
You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my momma taught me better than that.
Glad to know that your history class did study research and found the accuracy of PQ.
The books that so many of us read on Grace O'Malley is somewhat askew do to interpretation (IMHO). It would be great if we could get a group of the O'Malley's together and ask them what they think of the portrayal of their ancestor!
It's just like that "Abe Lincoln" quote..."You can't please all of the people all of the time", and sister that's the truth.
SO true, fachedaluna.
If I was putting on a show my goal would not be to please everyone. It would be to inspire, touch, make people think, educate, or possibly just entertain visually depending on the subject matter.... and hopefully it would effect and interest enough people to keep the seats filled and recoup my investment.
Jason - to answer your question about what those of us who liked it liked, PQ did all those things for me in Chicago. No, it wasn't perfect but I expect that whatever they've done to improve the show will only take what I got out of it the first time to a higher level. And it wasn't just one specific part or element. It was the show as a whole, so I'm sorry but I do have to include the performances in that assessment.
There will ALWAYS be flaws because the definition of what a flaw is differs so much depending on who you ask. Also, what people expect and want out of a show differs as well. I know this is an extreme example but if all someone wanted out of PQ was a second date with the guy/girl they took to see it, and they got one, they might possibly tell you the show was great! That is also why you should always consider the sources and make up your own mind when it comes to judging shows.
So popular does your consider your sources mean that we should trust your judgement for being so in love with this show that everytime someone has anything negative to say your hands start blazing to type? While, I agree with that statement 100% it is obvious that some of us are not just your typical theatre heads with no education, experience, or knowledge behind the things we mention. Sure, no one should consider the gospel truth from a message board because there are always people to diss something just because everyone else is the same thing but then again there are just as many people wanting to beat that this show is best thing since fire.. So, how can it work that there is a medium where sources/opinions of some should count, and other don't. My motto is this..if four of five friends say something sucks.. I'm going to take that to mind. Just a thought
I'm not gonna hate you in the magazines,
(I'm better than that)
I'm not gonna compromise my Christianity,
(I'm better than that)
You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my momma taught me better than that.
It seems to me that someone has the right to say whether they liked a show or not, and not be accused of working for a competing show and trying to sink it. I've seen some horrible shows and would like a forum such as this to say what I thought if I thought it might help people save money from something I thought was a complete waste of time. Now, before you attack me, I haven't seen Pirate Queen. Because I like Les Miserables, I would be interested in seeing Pirate Queen.
But what's wrong with warning people about seeing something you really honestly think is a terrible waste of their money to see?
I saw PQ in New York a few weeks ago...I was drawn into the story emotionally....and it seemed that the other audience members were also drawn in judging by the cheers and the mid-scene applause for what was happening on stage. I cared about the characters.....I was drawn into the love story between Grace and Tiernan. I experienced many different emotions while I watched the show...anger, happiness, sadness, hope, and anticipation among others. I laughed during the show at humorous lines. The music....there were so many songs that I loved in the show. The dancing is fantastic and so much fun to watch!! And visually.....PQ is absolutely beautiful.
I have to include the performances in this because the people on stage are part of the whole "show experience"....Stephanie J. Block was fabulous....beautiful singing and she did a fantastic job playing Grace, Hadley Fraser has a wonderful voice and he was great as Tiernan......all of the people chosen for this show have such wonderful voices. The ensemble was outstanding!
I know people have different opinions about shows and I respect that.
My opinion of this show...I loved it!! I'm so glad I had the opportunity to see it!!
"But never lose track of who you are because you
have to look at yourself in the mirror every day and you have to feel good
about the way you
behaved." --Linda Balgord
It may be accurate, but as it's played now, her fighting after birth is just cheesy and unbelievable. Knowing that it's true and what actually happened would help out a great deal.
There isn't anything wrong with posting on forums that you you disliked a show. The creator of this thread "theatrebiz" is obviously doing it for other reasons. He created his account just to bash the show and then replied as if he was writing from a different account. This has happened on broadwayworld before and is usually a sign of what has now been termed "reverse shilling. And not even good reverse shilling." -Rath that made me laugh. His only posts are about how bad PQ is. I'm all for posting about a show if you dislike it but there are other motives at work. As if we here at Broadwayworld have the power to make or break ticket sales for a show. It's just silly.
Everyone here needs to get a grip. For those of you, i.e. this thread's creator, who have only complaints but no specifics or suggestions: you just look silly and ridiculous.
For those of you who are on here saying, "Oh, please, give the show a chance! Don't say anything bad because someone might listen and not go see the show!" It's called "word of mouth." It's been used ever since the age of theatre began. It's nothing new and was not invented to smite your most favoritest show in the whole wide world. Most of us who are knocking the show HAVE given the show a chance and have thought it utter crap. This isn't bad or good. It just IS.
So popular does your consider your sources mean that we should trust your judgement for being so in love with this show that everytime someone has anything negative to say your hands start blazing to type?
Of course "consider the source" includes me too. Why wouldn't it? I'm sorry if you feel my enthusiasm about the show comes across as trying to convince people to love it. If you actually read my posts in this thread you'd see that I am not bothered if it's not everyone's cup of tea. The only point I've actually made about forming an opinion on this (and every other) show is that it's best to just keep an open mind if you do choose to see it. I don't know how much clearer I can be about that.
Popular, all your posts are the same thing over, and over again. Why bother reading them all and boring myself further? I'm glad you include yourself in that mix because everytime someone writes something negative there's good ole popular chimming on someone else's opinions. You want to come across as some person just defending your love of the show. If a thread says the Pirate Queen sinks..maybe no one asked you to offer anything to that. That's just me! I'm a not a meanie in real life but it seems today I'm playing one
I'm not gonna hate you in the magazines,
(I'm better than that)
I'm not gonna compromise my Christianity,
(I'm better than that)
You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my momma taught me better than that.
I'd take your own advice and not bother reading my posts then. You don't seem to be getting a correct image of who I am through them anyway. Honestly, I'm sorry you've put so much of your time and energy into my posts and how they bore you. Surely you have better ways to spend your time.
Obviously source should be considered in any criticism of anything. I would hope that my earlier posts show my objective view of the show - I went in wanting to love it and was SORELY disappointed by what I saw. I clearly outlined what bothered me about the show, and explained how I would fix those problems. While my opinion certainly shouldn't carry any more weight than my equals, the fact that I DID objectively write out my thoughts, I AM educated (both in the world of theater and otherwise), and I am not schilling against the show for any reason WOULD make my opinion resonate more than someone who comes on the board squeeing or bashing with nothing to support their views. In that way, yes, some people's opinions SHOULD and DO matter more than others.
Keeping an open mind is ALWAYS a good thing - but if you go to a restaurant that makes horrible steaks, even though you love steak, should you not warn your friends that those steaks are terrible? You can suggest they try for themselves, but if your opinion holds any weight, then hopefully your friends would try another establishment...
You did, in fact, prove to have put some thought behind your analysis. Though I'll have to wait to see it myself to see if I agree with you or not, I do respect your opinions.
I definitely agree that some people's opinions carry more weight than others. When I said consider the source I should've added and then decide who's opinion you think is worth taking into consideration.
Lady Italy - tartish behavior on BWW? You don't say...
Well, I'd like to think of myself as a musical theatre person and I absolutely loved it. People should see it for themselves and draw their own conclusions. I think some will be pleasantly surprised. It's been a while since an epic story has graced the Broadway stages.
"I'm learning to dig deep down inside and find the truth within myself and put that out. I think what we identify with in popular music more than anything else is when someone just shares a truth that we can relate to. That's what I'm searching for in my music." - Ron Bohmer
"I broke the boundaries. It wasn't cool to be in plays- especially if you were in sports & I was in both." - Ashton Kutcher
"she had a son while she was a pirate, and one day he was cleaning the ship and slipped, and was hanging off the side, begging for his mother to help him, and instead of saving him she chopped off his hands and let him fall to his death. She claimed that he didn't deserve to live because he wasn't tough enough and shouldn't have slipped. This is historically accurate information, I assure you."
I'd like to see the source; I did a PhD in Early Modern lit and in all my studies I have never seen this account. She had four children, and all of them died with their hands on. (Did they tell you the old saw about how she ran a rope connected to her ship up through the window of Rockfleet and tied it to her ankle every night before bed? Not true, either--and physically impossible, if you think about it.)
Grania wasn't a lady by any standards, but she was also a product of her time. She was a pirate and, as such, was responsible for the deaths of some of the pirates and sailors she encountered on the sea, but I've actually not read anything that said she was a bad mother (her bearding Elizabeth in her den in an attempt to save her son, Tibbot, and her half-brother, is evidence of this. And if it's Tibbot to whom you refer--he was the one born on board--he is apparently the one who transcribed Grania's answers to Elizabeth's questions, a task for which he'd need at least one hand). If someone has an authorized source that says otherwise, please do share--I'm entirely willing to admit my mistake in the face of scholarship.
As for the musical, I quite enjoyed it in Chicago and am gratified to see that most of the changes my friends and I discussed have been put into place (so, apparently, though we aren't experts, we do have SOME sense of what "works"). I do wish they'd employed Llywelyn's use of the "choice" she has Elizabeth offer Grania at the end of her novel (Tibbot or her ships and a way to sustain her people); I mean, when there's a song in the first act called "The Choice is Mine," it does seem logical to me that they've set up the possibility of an eleven o'clock number for Block that reprises the issue of choice, in this case between Tiernan and a return to piracy/privateering. Overwhelmed by the responsibility of having chosen her people over her own heart her entire life (her marriage to Donal, staying with Donal to continue the O'Malley line rather than leaving him after her father's death, etc.), she could tell Elizabeth "the choice is yours." Imagine the tension when Elizabeth hands over the letters patent allowing Grania to sail, Bingham pitches his fit and is thrown into the Tower, and Grania returns to her ship--to find Tiernan waiting for her. It might be hokey, but it makes "sense" to me.
But then, I'm a former English professor turned high school teacher, not a Broadway expert (certainly not one with creds like Boublil and Schonberg have), so I see things from a "what makes sense in a straight play" sort of way, not a "what sells a musical" sort of way.
Wife just leaving theatre now (crying, she tells me)-
Stephanie was back tonight, and wife loved it.
Said audience reaction was amazing !! Guess the show (however imperfect it may be... I have not seen it yet... going tomorrow nite), is an enjoyable night at the theatre for many people.
