re: If you had been responsible for marketing of The Times They Are A-Changin ...

[SweMozArt]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:17am

I would have emailed EVERYONE with some of the best numbers from the show. I would have put up some numbers on the unmentionable site with an insane number of tags. I would have had the cast performing on many more tv-shows. I would have written in the contract that Dylan has to be at the premiere. He should also have been "forced" to perform a bonus concert at one of the first 100 performances (it would be a secret which one). And most importantly, i would have ordered Twyla to answer each question from the Broadway world community with an essay, espcially Blaxx interesting question about Baryshnikov.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:25am

and you would have been laughed at and fired.
I agree that maybe the show was not PR'd right,
I Loved this Show and the Cast was beyond Amazing.
but you have to have the money and reviews to work with.
I think recording the show before it got to NYC would have
helped cause Michael Arden. Thom Sesma and Jenn Collela sang the sh*t out of the DYLAN songs.
It was a hard sell and an experiment on TWYLA's part.
The Producers just copped out and that is how things went down.
"ART ISN'T EASY"
Updated On: 11/9/06 at 01:25 AM

[SweMozArt]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:35am

"and you would have been laughed at and fired".

Ha! Ha! Curtainpulldowner, if your username is any indication of your philosophy i understand why you would fire me!

Is it expensive to upload videos on the unmentionable site? Is it expensive to perform at TV-shows? Is it expensive to email some songs to alot of people? Ok they might not have the incitament to buy these particular songs but they might visit the show and buy the cast album. The songs could also have been in a temporary format.
Updated On: 11/9/06 at 01:35 AM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:39am

I would have cast The Wiggles.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:42am

Well THE TIMES was a hit in San Diego
and I mostly meant you don't tell Dylan
what to do
But His New Album is a big Hit and he might have helped
This show going down depresses me so.
I am Down tonight at this news.

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:42am

Michael Arden. Thom Sesma and Jenn Collela sang the sh*t out of the DYLAN songs.

They did indeed.

*sadness*

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 1:46am

I also love The Wiggles version of
"Blowin' In The Wind"

Yes it is expensive to perform on TV shows. Updated On: 11/9/06 at 01:46 AM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 2:10am

Well, you can't "force" Mr. Dylan to either show up at opening night or do X-number of concerts in support or various tv shows to give air time to such a musical travesty. I imagine that their publicists tried mightily, in vain as it turns out, to book the show many places, but very few national tv shows have ANY interest in Broadway (Rosie on The View is one of the ONLY ones who cares at all who is also in a position of power to book Broadway on a national show).

While there are millions of fans of Bob Dylan out there, most of them have zero interest in seeing his music performed by Michael Arden, Lisa Brescia or ANY Broadway performer. They want to see Mr. Dylan himself, and if he's not in the show, then they could care less about seeing a musical set in a circus created by Twyla Tharp using his music as background --which is the reason why most jukebox musicals fail. While John Lennon, Earth Wind & Fire, Johnny Cash, Elvis et al have enormous fan bases, if the musicians themselves aren't actually on the stage, then their fans have no desire to see their music covered by Broadway people for $110 a ticket. I suppose MAMMA MIA and JERSEY BOYS are hits because their fans are more attracted to the music itself, than by the personalities of the people who originally created it. I'm not sure, but clearly the millions who've bought Bob Dylan records over the last 40+ years and continue to sell out his concerts around the world, had little interest in seeing anyone but him perform these songs.

And more than anything, world of mouth for THE TIMES was clearly bad-to-awful. Forget the reviews in the mainstream press, the people who attended previews clearly did NOT like this show and must have told their friends, colleagues and family members not to bother. Lots of shows get middling to mediocre reviews, but nevertheless strike a chord with the audience who then spread the word to those they know and as a result turn shows with so-so reviews into a hit (MAMMA MIA, for example).

There was nothing that even the greatest publicist on the planet could have done to save THE TIMES. A great press campaign can overcome bad reviews if the show itself nevertheless has some sort of mass appeal (that for one reason or another the critics didn't care for). With THE TIMES, not just critics, but audiences hated it too, and so there was no way for the advertising or commercials or appearances on national tv shows to save it. It was doomed from the first preview, and even though Twyla is unquestionably a genius, she couldn't fix this one and/or make it work for a mass Broadway audience (as she managed to do with MOVIN OUT), so its closing had nothing whatsoever to do with its marketing campaign -- the oddness of the show itself caused its downfall.

Marketing can lead a horse to water, but ..................

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 02:10 AM

[SweMozArt]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 2:41am

Sure, Dylan chose to take the money up front instead of participating in the marketing. If an artists legend grows by death and reclusiveness it seems like it's the other way around with the jukebox musical based on the artists work.

By the way his new cd could have been a great vehicle for advertising the show if they had added an extra cd with some performances from the musical and some information about it. I guess they thought it would be the other way around.
Updated On: 11/9/06 at 02:41 AM

[leefowler]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 11:03am

It's true, Dylan's fan base haaaaates Broadway, and the excerpt shown on the View certainly didn't perusade anyone that this show would be any different than what they feared it would be.

As to the success of Mamma Mia and Jersey Boys, that is due to one thing only...They are good shows. If Lennon, Good Vibrations or Ring Of Fire had been, well, "good", they would have been hits as well.

Personally, I'm glad Michael Arden is free to move on. He's brilliant, and I can't wait to see him on stage again!

[mpw607]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 6:16am

Margot I agree with 90% of your analysis. But one of the reasons why Jersey Boys is successful is that for the first time the public is learning the story of the 4 Seasons and it's pretty compelling. In the 60s the Seasons didn't seem to have a professional PR operation in the way that say the Beach Boys did. Thus Brian Wilson was dubbed a genius, but the brilliant Bob Gaudio was totally ignored by the media. Rather late in time, Jersey Boys is creating a sort of myth for the 4 Seasons.

As for Abba, even with them there are some hidden stories. Did you know that one of the women in Abba was the daughter of a relationship between a Norwegian woman and a German soldier during the Nazi occupation? After the war the mother and daughter faced persecution and fled to Sweden.I realise that the Nazi occupation was terrible but why take it out on an innocent little girl? It was a form of racial prejudice. That said I don't think there any suitable ABBA music to cover that if they ever wanted to do a bio-musical on them

[steveshack]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 8:58am

Since I'm still in L.A., I didn't get to see "Times," but I have to admit that when I saw the number on The View, I was cringing. I loved Michael Arden in "bare." I love Bob Dylan songs, but what I saw made me flush with embarrassment for everyone. Some guy dressed like Elvis, doing Elvis moves, carrying a glitter fake guitar singing "Like A Rolling Stone" while Cirque Du Soleil rolled around behind him on balls? I have no idea what the context was in the show, but out of context it was worse than laughable. It looked like a parody of the most horrific kind of Broadway interpretation of a serious song. Again, I'm not saying anything against the show because I didn't see it. I can only say what I saw on the tube out of context. It became an object of intense ridicule all over the Net among Dylan fans.

If he'd just stood there and sung the number without the choreography or the dancers or the costume, he might have sold it. It wouldn't have been what the show was, but sometimes it's enough to just sing a great song.

[purpleprince101]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 9:09am

i would have never opened it

[DRSisLove]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 11:57am

^ Agreed.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 12:23pm

BOOMERS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO TASTE AND A LITTLE BRAIN DAMAGED FROM THE COLLEGE ACID, HAVE WE GOT A SHOW FOR YOU!!!!

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 12:53pm

steveshack, that was exactly how it was in the show.

I was embarrased as both a Dylan and a Broadway fan by this show.

To suggest that Columbia add a cd of this to a Dylan album is silly.
The show needed to be associated with Dylan, but neither he nor the company had any need for it.

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 12:59pm

I agree with Steveshack. I have not seen the show, but saw clip of "like a rolling stone" on The View. If I closed my eyes I found the arrangement and performance enjoyable, but looking at it, I couldn't help but drop my jaw and shack my head. It looked ridiculous.

I can see it now, "Bring him home" from Les Miserables and Twyla has dancers in clown suits, riding unicycles and spinning plates.

[jennafan]

Posted: 11/11/06 at 1:27am

A lot of Dylan fans were turned off by The View performance.

I found a thread on a Bob Dylan message board and everyone bascially agreed that it was terrible.
Expecting Rain Message Board

[neddyfrank2]

Posted: 11/11/06 at 1:34am

I liked it a lot in San Diego.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 11/11/06 at 1:12pm

One of the smart choices made for MOVIN' OUT was to have Billy Joel's songs sung by a Billy Joel sound-alike. The focus was on the ballet (which was beautiful), and, with Michael Cavanaugh sitting above singing and playing his piano, it was as though the ballet was being performed to the soundtrack of Billy Joel.

Broadway's JERSEY BOYS sound exactly like the original Four Seasons.

All that MAMMA MIA garbage sounds like the original Abba garbage.

The starting point to any successful jukebox musical needs to be for the music to be performed in a similar and sound-alike fashion to the original music and performers.

Updated On: 11/11/06 at 01:12 PM

[Corine2]

Posted: 11/11/06 at 1:33pm

I tuned out the series of dreams and focused on the brilliant singing by Arden and Sesma.
I also saw Lennon and Ring of Fire and I enjoyed Times a lot more.
This show made me a fan of Arden and Sesma. The whole dark sadistic plot was just weird. Sesma and Arden have gorgeous voices and I was entertained despite the plot.
Jersey Boys really did an amazing thing. The plot worked with the talented singers. Additionally, I was glad to see Times They are A Changin. Very entertaining.