re: What really makes a show flop?- Page 2

[JLY's Jersey Gal]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 10:20am

No, it has 17 or 22. If you add the boys. You must be thinking of Mamma Mia! It has a 9 piece "band"

[PJMPirate]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:10pm

I still can't believe that Jersey Boys was a hit. I'm apparently in a very distinct minority when I say that I didn't like it.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:21pm

To many on this thread, it's easy to explain a flop. But to me, it's one of the mysteries of life. I"ve seen shows which were very good, good reviews and good word of mouth close prematurely (Tick Tick Boom). I"ve also seen shows which the audiences loved, had tons of talent on the stage, and great music close prematurely (Trailer Park). And of course, we're all aware of bad shows which run forever (I Love You, You're Perfect). Yes, I know-it appeals to turists..

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:23pm

Too many things. That range from RAGTIME to IN MY LIFE.

Bad producing. Bad marketing. Bad show. It depends how much one can outweigh the other.

A poor show could last an extra month on good producing skills where as a great show could fail due to cheap accounting ploys.

[dirty rotten guy]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:29pm

Honestly JLY's Jersey Gal, sometimes I fear you're touched.

[Becoz_i_knew_you21]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:35pm

Sweeney didn't flop. It ran for almost a year. That is very good because it was a hard show to sell.

[Hank]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:51pm

Bad concept, as in THE TIMES, THEY ARE A CHANGING.
They had the marketing (commercials right up to the end), star power (Twyla Tharpe, Michael Arden), but target audience (Dylan fans) wasn't buying it.
And that big fake guitar was hideous!
Some other recent bad concepts: Urban Cowboy, and all those stupid vampire musicals.

[JB Fan]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:24pm

JLY's Jersey Girl, where are you getting those numbers? The cast of Jersey Boys is 13.

4 principals (Frankie, Tommy, Bob Gaudio & Nick)
2 Supporting roles (Gyp & Bob Crewe)
7 Chorus tracks (3 women, 4 men)
That is a total of 13 Actors who are members of Actors Equity onstage (as there are also 4 swings who cover various roles, including leads, but they are not in the show)

Then there is about 9 or 10 musicians, which includes the conductor, who plays in the band). Two of these musicians are listed in the program as actors, since they appear as bodies on the stage at numerous times not playing their instruments, they are Joe Payne and Ken Dow.

IBDB lists these musicians as "
Keyboards: Deborah Hurwitz, Ron Melrose and Stephen "Hoops" Snyder;
Guitars: Joe Payne;
Bass: Ken Dow;
Drums: Kevin Dow;
Reeds: Matt Hong and Ben Kono;
Trumpet: David Spier;"
but that was on opening night, and I think that may have changed.

Of the 13 member cast, 3 of these members if Actors Equity also are considered onstage musicians, they are Steve Gouveia, Donnie Kehr and Christian Hoff, who actually play onstage. I believe they also get paid via the musicians union as well. The rest of the cast, even when they appear to play instruments, are "faking it" (even if they can actually play, including Daniel Reichard and J. Robert Spencer, who are never really playing).

So, based on all of that information, I am counting 12 onstage musicians, however, they may be some additional ones who are not credited on IBDB. But, I sincerely think there are only 12 or 13 total. Of course, several may play more instruments than listed, but probably never at the same time.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:35pm

As many others have said, there are a lot of factors.

Bad reviews - Brantley kills
Bad marketing - if life gives you lemons, make a musical
Bad producing - banking on the talent involved and not the show itself
Bad concept - why write a show about someone whose life nobody cares about? why write a show based on a movie that wasn't that good to begin with? why write a show using the songbook of legendary musicans?
Bad ideas - as described above: In My Life, Lestat, Lennon, Wedding Singer, Good Vibrations

[bwayondabrain]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:47pm

i just had a weird thought:

it seems beyond me that producers of some shows/flops, really think their shows are going to do well on Broadway. think about it- producers wouldnt bring a show to New York if they really didn't think it was going to be a hit or something because they dont want to waste the money. How some producers really think their shows are going to be the next big thing, such as IN MY LIFE or LESTAT, is beyond me. Like seriously, producers wouldnt bring a show to Broadway if they didn't think it would run a couple years or make back its money and do well! Wow...

I hope people got what I was trying to say.

[JLY's Jersey Gal]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:50pm

Ugh! Once again my sister is posting under my name. Beware of some stupid posts. Sorry for all of the miss leading numbers. *leaves*

[actor]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 4:09pm

I know this sounds silly, but sometimes little things like logos and titles of musicals can count. If someone wants to see a show, they might try looking on Broadway.com. When on Broadway.com, it lists the shows with the logos next to them. I know that from personal experience, if I am intrigued by a logo or a title, I might click on it and read the summary. If the logo and/or title is weird and/or stupid, I might glance over it.

Also, sometimes hearing about a show makes a big difference. If I'm looking on Broadway.com, I might be more resistant about seeing a show I know nothing about.

[JLY's Jersey Gal]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 4:15pm

Yeah that's true. Mostly people like shows that attract the eye, like shows such as Hairspray, WICKED, Jersey Boys ,and POTO. Looks always have to count for some credics. That's a shame.

Updated On: 11/19/06 at 04:15 PM

[TWSFan4Ever]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 5:38pm

oh, and RENT doesn't have the big of a band, either, and it's been running for over 10 years.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 7:46pm

99% of the time, it's one thing alone: lousy writing.







Allison MacKenzie
Peyton Place, New Hampshire

[Trekkie2]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 8:37pm

An unknown concept. Can anyone name 5 original shows on broadway now?

[Julian2]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 8:47pm

The Drowsy Chaperone
A Chorus Line
Avenue Q
Curtains
Martin Short: Fame Becomes Me

Granted, one's a revival and the other's all about Martin, but seriously, its not so much about being completely original, adaptation is a part of the artform, its more about not being a Tarzan [Bad movie adaptation] or a Mamma Mia! [Jukebox] or a Wedding Singer [Feels like it came out of a marketing meeting]. Otherwise, adaptation is fine (Oklahoma!, West Side Story, The Pajama Game, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Chicago, La Cage Aux Folles, Passions, The Producers).

Updated On: 11/19/06 at 08:47 PM

[Trekkie2]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 8:53pm

Not to nit-pick, Julian- but without sesame street, Ave. Q would not be what it is, so it's not really original. I do see your point, however.

[Trekkie2]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 8:45pm

Bump

[Trekkie2]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 8:45pm

Bump

[allofmylife]

Posted: 11/23/06 at 1:34am

Now... go with me here for a moment........ if we could GUARANTEE the show was a flop.......

and we sold more than 100% of the shares.....



nah, that'd never work.......