Your Favorite Presidents and First Ladies- Page 3

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/21/23 at 12:01pm

No.

Okay, so reading back, I can see "a wasted life" was a wrong choice of words. I do stand by my general point, though.

Also, if it is a matter of respect that concerns you, I'd like to say that this is not an official book of condolence. It is just a thread on presidents and first ladies on a theatre message board. Not even one dedicated solely to the death of Rosalynn Carter. I have no worries that she will ever read the words I have written, and I would assume that anyone who does will be strong enough to withstand them... so why should I not express myself?

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/21/23 at 3:54pm

"Jay Lerner-Z said: "A wasted life" Shut up. Just this one time, SHUT UP."

Rosalyn Carter was a mental health advocate dating back to the late 1960's. She was helpful in getting mental health insurance legislation (with Senator Wellstone) passed in Congress. During her husband's term as POTUS, she regularly attended cabinet meetings at the request of her husband to stay informed. She launched the "Every Child By Two" nationwide campaign to help increase early childhood immunizations. She served on the board for "Habit for Humanity" which is a wonderful thing. I have done some volunteer work with them over the years. Later in life, Rosalyn Carter became a deacon in her church. She was married to her husband for 75 years, that is pretty wonderful IMO. There are many more things I could list but just wanted to say that this wonderful woman wasted her life is shameful. I think it is quite disgusting to denigrate a woman who just passed away to make a "cheap" political point. Finally, I wonder how much the poster of that has accomplished in life. Wonder if the poster would like people saying his life was "wasted" when he passes away.

Highland Guy - it is quite rare I agree with you, but this is one of the times. You are 100% correct IMO. 

 

Updated On: 11/21/23 at 03:54 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/21/23 at 4:05pm

I was in no way trying to denigrate her. The opposite is true. She was obviously a decent and intelligent woman who did good work. I was just pondering what could have been if society had allowed her to fulfill her potential. She would probably agree with me. She was born nearly a century ago, there is no denying she must have faced many misogynistic hurdles in her life. She did very well to get as far as she did. I hope she is at peace, and was happy with what she did in life. I admire her.

What more can I say?

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/21/23 at 5:01pm

We should also remember and respect that Rosalynn Carter was a military spouse.

https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2023/schedule-of-observances-rosalynn-carter.html

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/21/23 at 6:44pm

Zeppie... what exactly made her deserving of a place at the cabinet table? By invitation of her husband. Hm, first ladies are unelected. I'm not sure how this can be justified. They were not co-Presidents.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 9:17am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I was in no way trying to denigrate her. The opposite is true. She was obviously a decent and intelligent woman who did good work. I was just pondering what could have been if society had allowed her to fulfill her potential. She would probably agree with me. She was born nearly a century ago, there is no denying she must have faced many misogynistic hurdles in her life. She did very well to get as far as she did. I hope she is at peace, and was happy with what she did in life. I admire her.

What more can I say?"

Well you said she had a wasted life. Which is insulting and untrue. And you haven't edited it. Maybe instead of saying more you should say less.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 10:05am

I said what I said. It can't be unsaid. I don't see any point in editing it because it would throw the whole subsequent conversation out of context.

I stand by my opinion. "First Ladies" have to sacrifice their whole identity in support of their husband's career. This, to me, is a waste. I fail to see why or how anybody could find this point of view unreasonable. It's a tired and outdated concept that needs to be retired.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 10:31am

By all accounts Rosalynn Carter was very happy in her marriage. They both say they considered thier marriage a full partnership and Rosalynn has said their 77 years of marriage was one of their greates achievemehts. Who are you to diminish her and  say you know better than her? Seems misogynistic to me.

Updated On: 11/22/23 at 10:31 AM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 11:21am

Michelle Obama is also very happy in her marriage. She still has a Harvard law degree that she can't use.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 11:50am

Of course she can use her degree if she wants to. So belittling of you to suggest otherwise.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 12:21pm

She can't. Just like how Hillary had to sacrifice the prime years of HER life, so did Michelle. That's just the reality of the situation. Nothing belittling about recognizing the sacrifices these women have made.

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 2:59pm

ErikJ972 said: "By all accounts Rosalynn Carter was very happy in her marriage. They both say they considered thier marriage a full partnership and Rosalynn has said their 77 years of marriage was one of their greates achievemehts. Who are you to diminish her and say you know better than her? Seems misogynistic to me."

Yes, "misogynistic" indeed.

I was born just six months following the marriage of Jimmy and Rosalynn, which makes me soon-to-be 77.  Amazing for me to realize that even at my advanced age, they were hand-in-hand as husband and wife before my birth.  And what a wonderful partnership it was!  Our country is fortunate that Rosalynn was one of President Carter's most valued avisers (if not his MOST valued adviser) during their many years working and loving together.  

Rosalynn Carter was and always will be known as one of our foremost National Treasures.  And despite the despicable efforts of our resident bully/troll, nothing he writes in this or any other thread will change that truth.  NOTHING.

Updated On: 11/22/23 at 02:59 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 4:13pm

I am not a bully.

I am not a troll.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 4:15pm

Here is First Lady Michelle Obama talking about marriage.

 

 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 10:47am

"Misogynistic" is an actual word, by the way, and I used it correctly. Why the mocking?

Please consult dictionary.com if you are in any doubt. Example : three men ignoring, or oblivious to, the lived reality for many 20th century women in America is misogynistic.

 

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 11/25/23 at 11:44am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "She can't. Just like how Hillary had to sacrifice the prime years of HER life, so did Michelle. That's just the reality of the situation. Nothing belittling about recognizing the sacrifices these women have made."

First off, that video clip of Michele Obama was her talking about how marriage is a partnership and one that involves hard work over the years. Not something that happens right away. Nothing she said came closer to suggesting that she squandering her life away when her husband became president.

Also, First Lady Carter did do great work and took great advantage and then some of her position as First Lady and she’s not the only one who has. To say that anyone who is First Lady gave up the prime of their lives just because their husband was president is in fact belittling to them. You do realize that the role of First Lady is drastically different now (and in a very positive way) than it was back in the day. It used to be that all the First Lady really could do (and did) was hosting state dinners. Being treated like a glorified house wife. So, you should take a look in a history book before you speak and walk away with egg on your face.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/25/23 at 2:12pm

"To say that anyone who is First Lady gave up the prime of their lives just because their husband was president is in fact belittling to them. You do realize that the role of First Lady is drastically different now (and in a very positive way) than it was back in the day. It used to be that all the First Lady really could do (and did) was hosting state dinners. Being treated like a glorified house wife. So, you should take a look in a history book before you speak and walk away with egg on your face."

Hillary Clinton was a full partner at Rose Law firm in Arkansas while her husband was governor. She was the first woman ever to be a full partner of that firm. Bill Clinton thought about not running for re-election (1990) for Governor (2 year terms) and Hillary thought of running but private polls were not favorable.  As FLOTUS, she headed task force for National Health Care Reform. In other words, she was not being a "glorified" housewife - ha ha. 

Would Hillary Clinton have become US Senator from NY and Secretary of State if she was not FLOTUS? We will never know but to think her position (FLOTUS) and being married to Bill Clinton did not help is foolish. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/25/23 at 4:00pm

Sigh. Stop attacking me, people. Nothing I have said was meant as an insult to Rosalyn Carter. Only as a reflection on society. I think words like "shameful" and "despicable" and "bully" are a bit of an OTT reaction. I don't understand such visceral hatred toward me, but I won't let it bother me.

Hillary Clinton was an exception. To a degree. She was the first First Lady to try to transcend the misogynistic limits of the role. Hosting tea parties was not enough for her. She got her own office, her own staff, and tried her darndest to bring in HillaryCare. Unfortunately, because people could still not accept a woman with an independent mind, she failed. She became hated. No subsequent First Lady ever tried to rise above "their station" to this very day. It is bad PR. It took years until HillaryCare was finally accepted, only this time known as "Obama"Care.

The office of First Lady remains an ornamental one. Nominally important, with a small amount of "soft power". Arguably, this is how it should be. After all, First Ladies are unelected... but it is an unfortunate position for any woman of intelligence as they remain stifled and silenced for four to eight years.

In 1977, nearly fifty years ago, when Mrs. Carter took on this mantle, it was still VERY MUCH of a "glorified housewife" mold. And largely still is.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 11/25/23 at 8:21pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Sigh. Stop attacking me, people. Nothing I have said was meant as an insult to Rosalyn Carter. Only as a reflection on society. I think words like "shameful" and "despicable" and "bully" are a bit of an OTT reaction. I don't understand such visceral hatred toward me, but I won't let it bother me.

Hillary Clinton was an exception. To a degree. She was the first First Lady to try to transcend the misogynistic limits of the role. Hosting tea parties was not enough for her. She got her own office, her own staff, and tried her darndest to bring in HillaryCare. Unfortunately, because people could still not accept a woman with an independent mind, she failed. She became hated. No subsequent First Lady ever tried to rise above "their station" to this very day. It is bad PR. It took years until HillaryCare was finally accepted, only this time known as "Obama"Care.

The office of First Lady remains an ornamental one. Nominally important, with a small amount of "soft power". Arguably, this is how it should be. After all, First Ladies are unelected... but it is an unfortunate position for any woman of intelligence as they remain stifled and silenced for four to eight years.

In 1977, nearly fifty years ago, when Mrs. Carter took on this mantle, it was still VERY MUCH of a "glorified housewife" mold. And largely still is."

Yet, you were given two different First Ladies who, in fact have done more as First Lady than being a “glorified housewife” both were also First Ladies at different points in time. And, despite all that you still try to make a point about how it’s degrading to women. But, you’re backpedaling and it’s sorta sad.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 1:30pm

The two examples given only prove MY point, not yours. Hillary did not take her husband's surname upon marriage, only after becoming First Lady of Arkansas. They become an appendage of their husband, and surrender their own identity completely. This is fact.

The "office" of "First Lady" is not an "honor" to "serve" in. It is a prison sentence.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 6:45pm

Did anyone watch the Showtime series "The First Lady"?

Seems like something I'd be interested in, but for whatever reason it just passed me by. Judging from the trailer, I'd say it lands somewhere in between our different takes on this board. I like the bit where Eleanor is trying to fight for bringing in Jewish refugees, but FDR shoots her down quickly.

 

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 8:59pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "The two examples given only prove MY point, not yours. Hillary did not take her husband's surname upon marriage, only after becoming First Lady of Arkansas. They become an appendage of their husband, and surrender their own identity completely. This is fact.



The "office" of "First Lady" is not an "honor" to "serve" in. It is a prison sentence."

Do you even know the difference between what is fact opinion? The sky is blue, that’s a fact, birds fly, that’s a fact, 2+2=4 is also a fact. Your statement that being the First Lady forces them to loose their identity and become an appendage of their husband is not a fact. You have every right to feel that way and have that opinion. But, it’s not a fact.

Remember that thread you made awhile back? The one that talked about how you judged women for wanting a guy to pop the question or thought that it was wrong for a woman to take the last name of the man but not the other way around? Keep in mind, there were female posters who said they didn’t mind, yet, you still belittled them anyway for feeling the way they did. As a guy neither you or I are able to judge women for making a choice that is theirs alone. You come across as someone who is pretty gung-ho when it comes  woke issues as it relates to women. Yet, you really are in no place to judge (and neither am I for that matter) because you’re a guy as am I. 

And, bit of friendly advice, google what it means to be a troll on an online message board. You’ll see that you fit that definition to a T. And, when it comes to you getting another suspension to this forum or notice that a post of yours has been deleted. You really should try to reflect on what it may have been that had either of those things to occur. The woe is me mindset around it is just annoying. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/27/23 at 10:25am

This is an overtly patriarchal society. The "choices" women can make are sometimes limited. Same for men, though less so. As we are all citizens of this society, we are all free to comment and judge. The patriarchy sets up an image of what both "women" and "men" should be, and what is expected from them. We are ALL victims of it, to varying degrees. Including, and perhaps especially, the LGBTQ community. Perhaps one day you might realize this, islander.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 11/27/23 at 12:02pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "This is an overtly patriarchal society. The "choices" women can make are sometimes limited. Same for men, though less so. As we are all citizens of this society, we are all free to comment and judge. The patriarchy sets up an image of what both "women" and "men" should be, and what is expected from them. We are ALL victims of it, to varying degrees. Including, and perhaps especially, the LGBTQ community. Perhaps one day you might realize this, islander."

By your logic, since this is an overly patriarchal society that we are all victims of in one way or another.  As such, you’re stating that as a man, you’re still able to comment and judge choices that only impact women that men  really have zero right comment on. And, that has zero to do with what kind of society we live in. By virtue of being a man, there are things that, no matter how you slice it, we have ZERO right to comment on. Say, abortion for example. Perhaps a little bit of an extreme one. But, still, by virtue of being a guy, you have no right to comment on anything relating to it since it impacts women and is a women’s rights issue for sure. So, are you telling me based upon your view that men are in fact able to comment on a woman having one and judging them for it. Of course not. There’s a difference between being a support system and an ally to a given cause, verses being able to talk and comment about one that you don’t fit into regardless. 

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/27/23 at 1:08pm

President Carter is expected to attend the Memorial Services for First Lady Rosalynn Carter.  Sending strength and love to the Carter family and friends.  The world was better for her presence.