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Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...? — Page 3

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#51

Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?

My main problem with the end is that the orchard allegedly "cured" the Murphy parents and brought them together. I find that highly unbelievable and feel like it was just an easy out for Zoe to say- I forgive you because you fixed my parents. I personally do not think Cynthia and Larry would be fixed at all. Statistics say that losing a child greatly increases chance for divorce, and they already seemed to be close to that edge before the loss if you believe Zoe's statement that "they can't stand each other."

However, I'm not really sure what, if anything, we are supposed to hope happened to Evan. I think the Murphys not blowing his cover is one of the more believable things that happen in the musical. They just lost their son to suicide. They found a note that reads EXACTLY like a suicide note and easily believe that that's exactly what it is. When they later find out that it was not written by their son, obviously they are very rightfully devastated/angry/upset/whatever. Their life had essentially just been destroyed for the second time in however many months.

But revealing the truth about Evan, that note, The Connor Project? I am sure they had enough sense to realize that if Evan wrote that note that he was, or at least was at one point, suicidal. They are not going to make things worse for a suicidal child after they literally just lost their own that way.

Heidi, I do believe is a good mother who tries her hardest. But the part of this show that bothers me the most is when she finds out Evan has stopped taking his meds and tells him that she is PROUD of him for "not needing them."

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 07:37 AM

#52

Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?

herewegoabc said: "My main problem with the end is that the orchard allegedly "cured" the Murphy parents and brought them together. I find that highly unbelievable and feel like it was just an easy out for Zoe to say- I forgive you because you fixed my parents. I personally do not think Cynthia and Larry would be fixed at all. Statistics say that losing a child greatly increases chance for divorce, and they already seemed to be close to that edge before the loss if you believe Zoe's statement that "they can't stand each other."

However, I'm not really sure what, if anything, we are supposed to hope happened to Evan. I think the Murphys not blowing his cover is one of the more believable things that happen in the musical. They just lost their son to suicide. They found a note that reads EXACTLY like a suicide note and easily believe that that's exactly what it is. When they later find out that it was not written by their son, obviously they are very rightfully devastated/angry/upset/whatever. Their life has essentially just been destroyed for the second time in however many months.

But revealing the truth about Evan, that note, The Connor Project? I am sure they had enough sense to realize that if Evan wrote that note that he was, or at least was at one point, suicidal. They are not going to make things worse for a suicidal child after they literally just lost their own that way.

Heidi, I do believe is a good mother who tries her hardest. But the part of this show that bothers me the most is when she founds out Evan has stopped taking his meds and tells him that she is PROUD of him for "not needing them."


"

I totally agree with your post. The Murphy's have a lot of empathy and when they realize the lie they realize that all those things Evan said about Connor were really about himself: suicidal, lonely, mentally troubled. They aren't the type of people who would do something that would drive Evan off the cliff as well.

As for Heidi that part of the show doesn't really bother me because Heidi is extremely overwhelmed by her very troubled son and her lack of resources to take care of all his needs. It's believable that she'd be deluded into thinking that maybe Evan's issues are solved because he has friends and things to do. I also believe that after the lie is revealed Heidi immediately puts her son back in therapy, because at the end of the show Evan is still writing those letters to himself.

#53

Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?

DEH didn't have a note of truth to it when it came to the end. It doesn't matter whether he lied to get into her pants or not...the devastation of this particular lie for that family would be...Jesus H. Christ, I find it unbearable to think about.

And that's only a part of the failings I find in the book. By the end of the show, I was confused, angry and disgusted. I was actually stunned at the carelessness of addressing responsibility and potential consequences. It really seemed like there was an intentional choice to either cut or avoid vital information in order to cultivate a tween idol musical. Much more so than the criticism I've read of Next to Normal or Wicked. To me, watching this show win Tonys for Best Musical and Book was liking watching the 2016 election results all over again (or to a lesser degree, the 2007 Tony awards). I'll give it credit for great performances, mostly solid score, clever lighting and staging.

and Evan is not a villain for being a mentally ill kid with social anxiety.

Sorry, but the writers and director really dropped the ball on suggesting mental illness. They attempted to make a really big deal of it at the start, then the therapy/medication aspect sort of fizzled out until it was suddenly raised for a totally contrived moment of conflict between Evan and his mother that didn't make much sense.

As for Heidi that part of the show doesn't really bother me because Heidi is extremely overwhelmed by her very troubled son and her lack of resources to take care of all his needs. It's believable that she'd be deluded into thinking that maybe Evan's issues are solved because he has friends and things to do.

No, it's really not believable because the show never really suggests that, ESPECIALLY if she were concerned about her lack of resources. If his mother was all over him and so involved in his therapy and medication to the point of insisting he do his "homework" and attending his sessions and taking his meds, when did she just stop paying attention for MONTHS that he'd stopped it all. There are co-pays, appointment bookings, subscription refills...stuff that is often hard to budget and pay for as a single parent. I didn't buy that second act contrived conflict AT ALL. And what about the issue of fraud? The show leans heavily on responsibly using social media, but nobody mentions the potential consequences of online crowdfunding built on a platform of lies? No mention what could have happened to Evan and (more likely) his mother had the donors discovered the truth? In the end, I was just disgusted and nauseous. I felt like the creatives were as careless as their protagonist.



On another note, people still don't know the difference between "lose" and "loose"? Or that you NEVER use an apostrophe to pluralize nouns (even when it is a proper noun, like a name)?


"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 10:44 AM

#54

Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?

I'd be willing to bet good money that if was possible to do a metrics analysis of the average number of words per post re every show ever discussed on BWW (which obviously it's not), you'd find that DEH ether leads in that category or is right up there. Understand that I'm not saying it's the most talked about show, it's just that when we all write about it we have a lot to say, good or bad.


CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.
#55

Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?

LOL You should have seen this place when Wicked opened. Nothing has come close to blowing up BWW like Wicked.

Oh...and ask any question about Follies. You will get every possible detail from every production, anecdotes, character analyses, memoirs, costume color debates, and so on and so on and so on... Follies fans love to pontificate.


"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 11:26 AM

#57

Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?

Why would anyone be stunned by the careless handling of responsibility and potential consequences in this musical? I mean, this is 2017....in the US of A. Enabling is the way of the land nowadays. And you certainly can't hold people accountable or responsible anymore, or give them the consequences they so often deserve, because you might hurt their "wittle feewings."

If the way this musical ends is seen as a flaw because of the way it addresses responsibility and consequences, well, welcome to America, folks. It's actually quite authentic. Why try to explain it?

Personally I really liked the musical because I accepted it for what it was. An entertaining showcase for some wonderful performances. Was it always believable? No. But what musical is? You could find fault with everything if you analyze it to death.

And for the responsibility factor and/or consequences?

Perhaps it was brushed over and maybe not completely addressed in the way some felt it should have been. But even if remained in that brushed over state, that's pretty representative of what we see in the country around us nowadays anyways.

I will say that I had moments of connection to Evan myself. Which is maybe why it had a cathartic impact on me. And there were definitely people in the theater around us who obviously were moved by it too. Even despite the "unbelievability" of some of the action, or the lack of consequences and responsibility therein.

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