La La Land- Page 13

[bear88]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 4:43am

After its Golden Globes sweep, QueenAlice wrote: Congrats to LA LA Land. Tomorrow the backlash begins.

I wrote at the time there might be a backlash, but that nothing would stop it from winning Best Picture.

I was wrong. 

[Petralicious]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 9:02am

Yay Emma!!

[Trish2]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 10:04am

In the end, the better film won.

[froote]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 10:57am

There already was a backlash - as much as some people didn't want to believe it - and that's why Moonlight won.

Best Picture is voted on a preferential ballot. Voters number all of the nominees from favorite to least favorite. None of the other categories are awarded this way.

Whilst it's absolutely likely that LLL got many 1s and 2s, the severe amount of backlash in the media over the last few weeks show that there are also people that were sick of how much attention the film was getting and would have put it at 8 or 9.

Moonlight may have had some homophobic or racist people put it at 8 or 9 but on the whole, even those that don't love Moonlight at least like or respect it. So it was able to come higher and win.

The message here for film studios is never let your film be such an early frontrunner with no real underdog status. If you do, by the time we get to the Oscars, there will be people that are sick of it and if they are, it may cost you the win.

Anyway, the award went to the best film in the end.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 4:44pm

And, in a moment of what can only be described as ironic poetry, the "what-if" seems beautiful again.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 5:46pm

Whilst it's absolutely likely that LLL got many 1s and 2s, the severe amount of backlash in the media over the last few weeks show that there are also people that were sick of how much attention the film was getting and would have put it at 8 or 9.

Even if that were true, it only paints the voters as petty and fraudulent and only makes a stronger case that possibly Moonlight wasn't the "Best Picture".  Personally, I seriously doubt the voters are scoring a film low because receiving praise and attention deems it undeserving.  If so, then it sounds like the voters are really just a bunch of anonymous message board users and Facebook teens desperate to seem cool.  So why wouldn't they just cast their votes publicly?  

More likely, La La Land just didn't rank as highly among the nominees as their marketing and publicity teams had hoped.  I really enjoyed it, but I didn't rank it #1 among the nominees, either.  I didn't rank Moonlight #1 either, but I'm fully aware that many people felt it was the best, felt it was an important film,  and were genuinely moved by it.  The majority of the voters could have feasibly felt the same way.

[froote]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 6:30pm

Oscar voters are petty and they always have been. Since 2000, 7 of the best actress winners have been in their 20s. There's only been one male best actor winner in his 20s ever. You think that's just a coincidence and the performances were all awarded on merit? No, they like young, pretty women and older, established men.

They will have seen LLL breaking the record for Golden Globe wins, winning undeserved awards such as screenplay. They will have seen it tie the record for Oscar nominations, getting undeserved nominations such as sound editing. And even if they liked the film to begin with, they will recognize that it is being overrewarded and that other films are being underrewarded. This casts a more negative view of the film in many people's minds. When the popular opinion is that a film is overrated, people will start to wonder (and may become convinced) if it actually is, diminishing their opinion of the film.

It makes no sense that LLL would win critics choice, BAFTA, golden globe etc. but not be loved enough to win at Oscar. Of course there is intense love and passion for Moonlight - I feel it myself - but if it was really the more loved film by Hollywood, why didn't it beat LLL in cinematography, score, editing, director? Because these categories don't vote via preferential ballot and a preferential ballot allows for a divisive film, which it has been proven that La La Land is, to fall short. 

Updated On: 2/27/17 at 06:30 PM

[PepperedShepherd]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 6:47pm

froote said:  "Moonlight may have had some homophobic or racist people put it at 8 or 9 but on the whole, even those that don't love Moonlight at least like or respect it. 

Homophobes and racists weren't any more likely to vote for La La Land. After all, they had Hacksaw Ridge on the ballot.

 

Mister Matt said: "Even if that were true, it only paints the voters as petty and fraudulent and only makes a stronger case that possibly Moonlight wasn't the "Best Picture".  Personally, I seriously doubt the voters are scoring a film low because receiving praise and attention deems it undeserving."

Except La La Land won the most non-weighted categories, including several where it was in direct competition with Moonlight (Director, Cinematography, Score).  Heck, it even won Best Song competing against itself!  So I'm going with "petty and fraudulent" voters.

{Edited to add: I see froote was posting much the same thing at the same time.}

 

Mister Matt said: "If so, then it sounds like the voters are really just a bunch of anonymous message board users and Facebook teens desperate to seem cool."

I had to laugh at John Fugelsang's tweet this morning:  "Boy, Moonlight won so many top awards that now the academy voters might actually watch it."

 

 

 

Updated On: 2/27/17 at 06:47 PM

[froote]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 7:26pm

I agree they'd likely put Hacksaw Ridge over La La Land and Hacksaw did have a couple of surprising wins, but they'd still go for La La Land over Moonlight, considering they have to make a list and not just name one.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 9:51pm

OR the voters ranked the nominees according to their personal preferences and laugh every year at the conspiracy theories that overthink the countless variables, such as deciding what is "undeserving" for them, as to why the popular film doesn't deserve to win because being hipster is cool and more important.

Honestly, these are the same theories and speculations (which is all they actually are) regardless the popularity of the winner, every single year.

[froote]

Posted: 2/27/17 at 10:41pm

So you think over 7000 people voted entirely down to personal preference and none of them may have considered other external factors?

Any other year, I would agree that these speculations are pointless. But we just watched the biggest frontrunner since Titanic lose to a movie with no budget and a subject matter that the Oscars have famously shunned before, that lost a ton of important precursors. To say 'oh that makes sense, they just liked Moonlight more' would be way too simplistic. I mean I wish that was the case, but still.

Updated On: 2/27/17 at 10:41 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 9:15am

So you think over 7000 people voted entirely down to personal preference and none of them may have considered other external factors?

Yes, that is exactly what I said verbatim.  It's like you simply copied and pasted my words.  I should sue for plagiarism.

The film tied with Titanic and All About Eve for nominations and the comparisons stop there.  If you read any comments on the internet at all, you might have noticed the opinions of La La Land and Moonlight that have been flying around.  I know conspiracy theories are fun and make people seem smart and have super cool insider knowledge of the industry, but the truth is, unless you ask all the voters how they voted and why, you don't actually know any more than I do.  

It makes no sense that LLL would win critics choice, BAFTA, golden globe etc. but not be loved enough to win at Oscar.

Critics choice isn't always in line with the Oscars.  BAFTA even less often matches the Oscars for Best Pitcure pick.  Moonlight also won the Golden Globe for Best Picture.

I mean I wish that was the case, but still.

Awww.  It could just as easily be the case, but still.

So you think over 7000 people voted politically based on backlash of a frontrunner winning previous awards and felt the need to award a smaller film they may not have liked as much out of pity and a sense of responsibility owed for an unrelated Best Picture decision eleven years ago with no regard for their own personal opinion of the film whatsoever?  Shall we play the game of who can twist each other's words to sound the most ridiculously exaggerated for effect?  It doesn't make you sound smarter, but still.

When the popular opinion is that a film is overrated, then it's even more likely that it won't be voted highly for Best Picture because they didn't like it as much as other nominated films.  Of course there is intense love and passion for Moonlight and it's likely that more voters had more intense love and passion for Moonlight than for La La Land and marked their ballot as such.

Believe whatever you want  Just don't pretend that it carries any more weight or is somehow more factual.  It's not.  It's just the exact same cynical nonsense that get bandied about from Oscar Monday morning quarterbacks every single year.

[John Adams]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 10:53am

I think you folks (Mister Matt and froote) are forgetting an important aspect of this year's nominations:

For the past two years, the Oscars have had an image issue that required attention (#OscarsSoWhite). Time Magazine and the LA Times have both published articles that indicate that new records were set in 2017 for African-American nominations.

Barry Jenkins also made Oscar history regarding his nominations this year. I think it's probable that the 2017 nominations might reflect a response to the previous years' complaints, and actually went a step further by being more inclusive of African Americans beyond just the acting categories. (See this article from the Christian Science monitor that states, "People of color punctuated every category from Best Picture to cinematography, reflecting what some see as a response to the online outcry of #OscarsSoWhite."

To my mind, neither La La Land, nor Moonlight were exceptionally great movies, and like others have pointed out, this was kind of a "meh" year. I've said before that even though I don't think it's the best film, I think Moonlight is certainly is an important film because of its subject matter, and even more importantly because the story is being told by predominantly African American filmmakers - a rarity.  The film also contains two outstanding performances, which can't be said for La La Land.

But I digress... Beyond what either of you have mentioned, I think that correcting the negative image issue was also on many minds this season. No conspiracy theory involved. Perhaps the Academy voters were just more mindful of their past mistakes.

[froote]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 2:16pm

Mister Matt, your post was patronizing so I wont bother writing out a proper response. All I will say is that no I don't think that 7000 voters voted because of external factors but that I do think some of them did and that is actually confirmed by the anonymous Oscar ballots that The Hollywood Reporter and other publications do every year. The Globe drama was all Moonlight had and it's been over 20 years since a film won with that little.

John Adams, yes that was likely a part of it too. Moonlight didn't win because of any one reason. It won because it was loved, because there was LLL backlash AND because of politics. There's likely numerous other reasons that all combined to cause such an unlikely win for Moonlight. I happen to think it was a very strong year for movies though.

[3NU]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 2:32pm

Daniel Montgomery of Gold Derby wrote a good summary of all the reasons why Moonlight could have beaten La La Land.  All in all, no one will ever know the REAL reason for the Best Picture upset.

On a more positive note, I couldn't be happier for Pasek and Paul.  Moreover, they were so much fun to watch on the Dolby stage.  It was the Golden Globes all over again haha.

[froote]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 3:04pm

I felt sorry for Benj at the end who seemed to have the most visible emotional reaction to LLL 'winning' Best Picture.

Updated On: 2/28/17 at 03:04 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 3:49pm

Mister Matt, your post was patronizing so I wont bother writing out a proper response. 

LOL.  I had no problem writing a proper response when you were being patronizing, but okay.    I actually read the Brutally Honest Ballots from the Hollywood Reporter and none of them mention exterior factors with respect to their opinions on La La Land or Moonlight (though more than one talks about Fences being just the play on film and/or already winning the Tony).  Here are the quotes thus far regarding La La Land and Moonlight with respect to Best Picture:

#1: "Moonlight and Hacksaw Ridge were really very good, but I don't think of them as a best picture. La La Land was tremendously enjoyable, but not all that deep or memorable."

My vote 
(1) Hell or High Water 
(2) Manchester by the Sea 
(3) La La Land 
(4) Hacksaw Ridge 
(5) Moonlight

#2: "I liked La La Land a great deal, but it felt a little light for me — I feel like a curmudgeon saying that, but it's true, it just was not a home run...But, as far as my vote, it wasn't close for me: I just loved Moonlight. The construction and humanity of it was just outstanding — [co-writer/director] Barry Jenkins is really a poet. A story about someone who is just desperately seeking love — I mean, who could not be touched by it? I thought it was amazing."

My vote
(1) Moonlight, (2) Arrival, (3) Manchester by the Sea, (4) Hell or High Water, (5) La La Land

#3: "I really admire Moonlight — the look of it and the story, which left me feeling like I was really f---ing there, and brilliant Marsala [Mahershala Ali] — but it was a tad inconsistent, with the first two thirds much better than the last third, and I was distracted by having characters played by multiple actors who look nothing alike...I normally go for sort of heavy films like Life of Pi, and I normally don't like musicals, but because everything's so f---ing miserable in the world, La La Land — even though it doesn't end on a positive note — took me out of the moment and found a place in my heart. It was a good distraction.

I actually saw it, for the first time, on Thanksgiving Day — I've seen it three times — all by myself, which I don't normally do, but my wife was out of town and I went there and I left with a skip in my step. It made me happy that I live in town. It was wonderful.

My vote 
(1) La La Land
(2) Moonlight
(3) Hell or High Water
(4) Lion
(5) Manchester by the Sea

#4: "I did not like La La Land — I thought it was imitative and I did not think the leads could sing or dance. I am of an age where I saw [1953's The] Band Wagon and [1952's] Singin' in the Rain, so how could I give this one an award that they never got? Yes, the music is good, but the fact that it got 14 nominations makes me wonder about my colleagues' opinions. I really felt it was a piece of ****...My choice was Moonlight, which is everything I think an Oscar picture should be: good script, good story, good performances and about something meaningful. It's not quite The Best Years of Our Lives, but it shows what it's like to live in a world where we seem to be disconnected from our families. Here, a child gets saved from — is she [the character played by Naomie Harris] his mother or his sister? — and gets a [surrogate] father that he didn't have. I loved it."

My vote 
(1) Moonlight
(2) Lion
(3) Fences
(4) [left blank]
(5) [left blank]

#5: "I liked La La Land, Hell or High Water and Lion very much...But I loved Moonlight — it was so simply and beautifully done, without any BS. It totally won me over."

My vote
(1) Moonlight
(2) Hacksaw Ridge
(3) Lion
(4) Hell or High Water
(5) La La Land

#6: "I wasn't crazy about Hell or High Water or Arrival. La La Land was mediocre — it didn't do anything for me...My favorite, though, was Moonlight. I thought it was absolutely terrific — they constantly surprised me and I thought it was so, so well done."

My vote
(1) Moonlight
(2) Lion
(3) Hidden Figures
(4) Manchester by the Sea
(5) Hacksaw Ridge

BRUTALLY HONEST OSCAR VOTER BALLOT

You can speculate as to the unspoken external factors why they loved Moonlight or hated La La Land, but it's not in what they actually say about them.  They do mention that they didn't see all the nominated films and one bitches about the number of nominated films at length, which only makes them look like douchebags who shouldn't be allowed to vote and most likely represent the reason why there are so many nominees now.  Too many nominees can't be bothered to see anything more than the most buzz-worthy of the Best Picture nominees.

[froote]

Posted: 2/28/17 at 4:37pm

I wasn't being patronizing. Was there any point where I sarcastically 'aww'ed you? No.

And I never said the external factors from the ballots were related to La La or Moonlight, just that it proves that voters don't always vote from preference alone. But the fact you bothered to copy all of that out shows you're way more invested in this than I am so I'll leave you to it.

[jo]

Posted: 3/6/17 at 8:14pm

Have you seen LOGAN 

Updated On: 3/7/17 at 08:14 PM

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 3/7/17 at 10:15am

They are doing a live concert tour of the movie that will kick off at the Hollywood Bowl! That's really neat...I love when they do film score concerts in sync with a screening. Hopefully they get a Manhattan date in there!

Link

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/11/17 at 8:10am

I found this interview of Damien Chazelle where he tells about his favourite movie of all time: The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, directed by Jaques Demy. It's a film in which every word is sung and by many considered to be the most beautiful film of all time. At the end of this interview there is also a clip from another film: Top Hat, with the dancing couple.

After watching this and many scenes from that first film, it was remarkable how much of that was copied in la La Land. Some songs literally have the same melodies.

It doesn't make me love La La Land any less, I just thought it was interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhOSY1M7To

Updated On: 3/11/17 at 08:10 AM

[jo]

Posted: 3/11/17 at 9:33am

From LES PARAPLUIES DE CHERBOURG --

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 3/11/17 at 7:18pm

From the first time I heard the soundtrack I heard the Legrand-esque jazziness, and yes Demy's two musicals are just as influential on the movie as any golden age Hollywood one. The ending especially is very very very similar in tone and even content to Umbrellas. Young Girls of Rochefort was on the other day and even the way the musical numbers are staged and filmed in La La Land is kindof reminiscent. And of course the rich vibrant colours. But of course most of the oh-so-insightful queens who bash the movie have never even heard of those movies.

Sidenote: I heard an outrageously pretentious musical theatre student call La La Land a play with music the other day which is hilarious and wrong on so many levels.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/11/17 at 7:28pm

Even whole parts of songs are copied. That song from Top Hat has the same melody as "Lovely night dance".

Updated On: 3/11/17 at 07:28 PM

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 3/12/17 at 6:34am

Can't say I see any direct steals from "Cheek to Cheek" in "Lovely Night."