Oriental Theatre in Chicago will get a name change!- Page 2

[bk]

Posted: 11/15/18 at 5:14pm

John Adams said: "Changing the name of the theater to honor man with a long history with the theaterical world is fine with me. What gets my goat is the folks who find the current name "Oriental" to be somehow offensive.

It demonstrates a lack of knowledge, and shows a preference for the moronic vs. the enlightened.

The word Oriental is a synonym for the word Eastern.The word Occidental is its antonym, and means Western. Are the words Eastern and Western equally offensive?Of course not.

The issue is that a large group of people were once referred to as Orientals (from the Orient, or the Far East). That in itself, is/was not disrespectful. The disrespect was demonstrated whenthose people were viewed as second-class, andas subservient to a larger group of... well, morons.

The use of the word, "Oriental" in the name of the theater is not a reference to the peoples who were disgracefully disrespected by the morons. It is an adjective used to describe the design motif of the interior of the theater. To find the use of the word as a description of the design motif as "offensive" is to imply that the Oriental design motif is offensive.

When the title of "Oriental" in the name of the theater is misconstrued as being offensive, then the morons "win". It proves that their bad behavior can create an element of fear, and that they canchangehow "good" people react and think because of that fear.

I hate that idea."

You're not going to win here.  And it will be something else in ten years.  For years no one could call an African American person black.  Now it's fine.  Go know.  Some of my best friends are Asians and not a single one of them objects to the word Oriental.  Different strokes for different folks.  

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 11/15/18 at 5:24pm

Find the one person who belongs to the group who agrees your point-of-view. Say "I have a friend or friends who are _____, and they agree with me!" Dismiss or fail to acknowledge everything someone or several people with lived experience is saying about an issue that you don't actually care about or have any real life experience with. This is like cliche bingo!

[bk]

Posted: 11/16/18 at 6:13am

Oh, I think you're the clear winner of cliche bingo, my friend.  I'm telling you what I know from my Asian friends.  You don't like it, take it up with them.

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/16/18 at 12:43pm

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "She takes points people who have studied Asian-American history and sociology but doesn't fully respond to them. This line, "A wave of anti-Oriental discrimination is not sweeping the country." shows her ignorance and lack of knowledge of historical waves of violence against Asian-American communities and the recent upward trajectories of Asian-American discrimination and violence."

You've misinterpreted her meaning. She is referring to the use of the word, not to Asian Americans. This is confirmed in her next sentence when she writes, "Besides, the term has been steadily falling out of circulation since the 1950s"

"She also takes her personal experience as true for all AAPI which to me seems very narrow and uninclusive."

Nope. She is speaking for herself as an Asian American woman. You are making an assumption.

"And WTF does she mean about changing the term will "create trouble for exactly the population they want to defend"."

Some Asian Americans (and also non Asians) utilize the word as a non-threatening, distinguishing descriptor of their business, educational degree, science, product, or skills. To insist on the word's removal would "create trouble" for those people who rely on that distinction.

As only one, very simple example, I may be in the market for an Oriental rug. If the term "Oriental" can no longer be used, it creates an impediment for both the retailer and the consumer. 

"Regarding my earlier point about the word itself and how it plants the seeds of "otherness" and "exoticness" and thus becomes dehumanizing and used to paint AAPIs as "non-American""

I can't buy into that as a defendable argument. If you believe that using an adjective that "plants the seeds of 'otherness' and 'exoticness'" shouldn't be used, then you would also have to believe that requesting to be identified as "AAPI", or "Asian-American" should also be abolished, as they both produce the same result - that "otherness" you mention.

"Back to the main topic, the truth is this name change does not affect you in any meaningful way whatsoever."

Ughhh... That tired, old chestnut. Obviously, it does effect me in a way that is meaningful to me.

"It's only a theoretical exercise in principle about "fragile egos" and "morons" and it's part of a bigger fight to stop a certain generational momentum that you see. You don't really care about the word itself outside that context nor do you really care about the name of this ONE theater."

It's important to be able to recognize that some words might be used as slurs, but it's equally as important to be able to recognize when they are NOT. That's where the "context" part comes in (as mentioned in the op-ed I linked to).

Updated On: 11/16/18 at 12:43 PM

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 11/17/18 at 1:48am

There have already been several people of Asian descent who have posted in this thread who applaud the name change because of the triggering nature of the word. The theatre is often referred to as “the Oriental” (like how we refer to Broadway houses as the Majestic, the Golden, etc.) and this brings to mind the noun form of the word. Again, several Asian people, myself included, already said they were offended or triggered by the word, and we’re supposed to nullify our feelings about a term personally offensive to us because other certain individuals aren’t bothered by it. Got it.

I know that it’s a product of its time, but I clenched when Paul described the “Oriental number” in his monologue in City Center’s production of A Chorus Line tonight.

[bk]

Posted: 11/17/18 at 2:28am

Here's what you're supposed to do: Feel however you like and stop coming after others, including other Asians, who don't feel anything like you do.  THE Oriental Theater had NOTHING to do with denigration, and let me tell you if I never hear the word "trigger" again, unless someone is talking about Roy Rogers' horse, it will be too soon.  Pretty soon, friend, there won't be any words left that anyone can say.  In any case, as has been pointed out, they're not changing the name of the theater because of you - they're changing it to the name of some money person.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 11/17/18 at 11:27am

Can the mods please close this thread or even better remove John Adams?

[broadwaydanwi]

Posted: 11/17/18 at 6:38pm

Let's not forget that the Oriental Theater in Chicago was built on the same site as the Iroquois Theater which, when it caught fire on December 30, 1903, became the spot of America's deadliest accident in any performing arts venue. Over 600 people lost their lives in that blaze, and there are those who believe the Oriental -- and the alley that houses its stage door -- are haunted. Names of theaters will always change and change and change. But I think two points should be remembered in the case of Chicago's Oriental: one, we should always remember the loss that happened in the Windy City 115 years ago; and two, the theater is a place where all of humanity -- good and bad -- is displayed for both educational and entertainment purposes.

 

Updated On: 11/17/18 at 06:38 PM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 2/8/19 at 11:40pm

They officially renamed the theatre tonight. Also should be noted they have gotten rid of the “Ford” logo.

https://twitter.com/broadwaychicago/status/1094060786077573120?s=21

[bk]

Posted: 2/8/19 at 11:49pm

They got rid of the Ford logo?  That triggers me.  :)  Maybe Buick was triggered.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 2/8/19 at 11:59pm

I think the “ford” logo change is long overdue. It hasn’t been officially known as the “The Ford Center for the Performing Arts Oriental Theatre” for quite sometime.

[BenjaminNicholas2]

Posted: 2/9/19 at 1:13am

Oh, STFU.  PC gone wild.

Are we also going to stop calling them Oriental rugs?  

 

It'll never be Geffen Hall...  And it'll never be The Nederlander.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 2/9/19 at 2:19am

I truly don’t believe broadway in Chicago/the Nederlanders are trying to be PC making this change. There really hasn’t been too much protest or uproar to get the name changed. Which I’m not one to discuss as I’m not Asian. I just think the nederlanders thought it was 1) time to update the signage on probably their most prominent theatre in Chicago and 2) dedicate it to the founder of their institution. I’m sure people will still call it the oriental, like people who the CIBC theatre the Shubert or the Willis tower the Sears tower, but I’ll be happy to call it the Nederlander.