Sweeney Todd questions (WARNING: Possible spoilers!)- Page 5

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 1:38am

"I was just rereading this thread, and this has really nothing to do with Sweeney itself, but the idea of art therapy at an insane asylum reminded me of the play Marat/Sade."

Yup. This was commented on in many of the reviews for the show. I think this production stands alone, but there's certainly an element that reminds one of Marat/Sade.

"I think that the character of Pirelli has to be a man. Tobais says in "Not While I'm Around" ...."Oh, I know you fancy him, but men ain't like women, they ain't wot you can trust, as I've lived and learned." Pirelli is not one to be trusted...as none of the men are in the show, even Anthony."

I've never said that Pirelli IS a woman, but rather, that this production purposely leaves some ambiguity as to gender roles through this character. Only when Pirelli drops his/her accent, does his more "feminine" side become apparent: And Tobias never witnesses this. Therefore, in terms of gender ROLES, Pirelli the Italian has assumed the role of a man. And certainly, Tobias has known Pirelli to be a man (and also, arguably, a maternal figure) Only when faced with Sweeney Todd, is there a gender reversal: the fake pompous Italian accent becomes a soft, feminine voice. And in terms of gender roles, Pirelli becomes a sort of scorned female, or ex lover.

In other words, I don't necessarily think that there's a LITERAL interpretation in which Pirelli IS a woman dressed as a man. But there's an ambiguity that allows for different interpretations in terms of gender identities and representations.

I hope that was at least mildly coherent. :p

[LyTeMyCanDyI]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 1:53am

I just saw Sweeney for the second time on Wednesday. It is a difficult show to grasp, but that's what is so great about it. Now, I love Wicked, I really do, but it's a "bubble gum" show. You don't have to think to enjoy it.
I borrowed a copy of the libretto (The original roduction) months before I saw Sweeney. I was worried that I'd ruined it for myself once I went to see the show, but I was so glad I had gotten to read it first. The show is very intricate and it helps to have the background info so you can focus on the details. You also have to see it more than once. There is so much going onall at once.
I <3 Sweeney!

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 2:02am

"I am surprised at how people find Cerveris's Sweeney to be so sensitive. I think he's playing a character who is completely numb. He's the creepy guy who lives down the street who doesn't talk much but just mumbles and smiles at you who actually has skinned bodies in his basement."

I found Michael's Sweeney to be the only one I've ever truly sympathized with, finally giving his actions an added emotional response. He's just so tortured and brooding--past Sweeneys have been out-and-out crazy while Michael's Sweeney is creepy, yes, but only because it's chilling to think of what that sort of anguish and torment can drive a person to do. I've said it before and I'll say it again--his "Johanna" brought me to tears in the theatre and it nearly does the same every time I listen to the recording. I just love the melancholy, unhinged quality of his performance. It's breathtaking.

[Dirty Rotten Scoundrel]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 2:09am

About the whole Pirelli man/woman issue, I could have sworn they referred to him as "Signor Pirelli" or maybe I was just making it up, lol.

Also, with the Sweeney being too sensitive. I agree that Cerveris played him perfectly. There is so much more to the character than just some maniac killing people on a whim. He really is the "tortured soul" type character, and he has so many layers. I can't even put it into words...gah I love this show.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 2:52am

Do you honestly think Cariou and Hearn were just maniacs killing people on a whim? They brought a much more natural slow burn to Sweeney. By the time Cerveris gets to the "Epiphany" he's already wasted all his development. There's no suspense with Cerveris's Sweeney. In fact, "A Little Priest" feels out of character for Cerveris's Sweeney. I completely disagree that he's more human, he's more overtly a maniac. Which is totally valid, the character IS a maniac, but I'm just saying that from beginning to end Cerveris's Sweeney is a maniac and I never really feel any sympathy for him. No, he's not screaming and running around the stage like nuts but he substitutes for that by growling every line and looking pensive the entire show. I don't see the love he had for Lucy or the love he might have for his daughter, just his love for death. I mean, he lugs a freakin' coffin around in the second act. Again, totally valid interps of the character, and just what I see. For all the talk about how you can hear all the lines better, the story and relationships are slightly incidental to this Sweeney, which is occasionally more interested in its gimmicks.

The other characters come into spotlight. I care more about Johanna because of Johanna rather than because Sweeney wants Johanna back. It's weird but for some reason this production makes Mrs. Lovett feel a little incidental. I know there's all this talk about the sexual tension between them but honestly, I think Michael's Sweeney could really care less about sleeping with Mrs. Lovett, it's one sided.

In fact, as I mentioned in another thread, Michael Cerveris is the first person to ever actually chill me with the song "Johanna" because the other two Sweeneys I've ever experienced were too warm. I couldn't understand how they could stop being concerned about Johanna. It felt like awkward writing to me. When Michael Cerveris says "And though I'll think of you--I guess, until the day I die... I think I miss you less and less as every day goes by, Johanna," it all makes sense. I don't really see why this song makes you cry. I don't think it's meant to. It's a little unnerving, certainly, but it makes you cry? I don't cry easy though.

Also I think the music itself says that Sweeney has a bit more of a sense of humor, and as the show progresses he must get more pensive and Michael Cerveris-like. I'm not just being dinosaur boy and hanging on to previous interpretations, I just prefer other Sweeney interpretations to Michael's.

The funnest thing about this production, for me, aside from the fact that it has some really chilling moments, is that it's Sweeney Todd, and I know every freakin' word :) It's like Monty Python movies for Monty Python nerds.

[aprinceforwhatever]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 3:15am

wow, kevo, i was thinking the exact same thing. i've seen the show twice now, and i don't understand why magnuson doens't get the buzz he deserves. there is so much buzz of lauren's flat portrayal of johanna and hardly any talk of benjamin's new and much more interesting take on the role. he definately deserves more attention that he is getting. ALSO.. other people that are worth mentioning that deserve more credit include: Mark Jacoby's dark and sinister portrayal of the judge. besides his beautiful voice, he is a wonderful actor and musician who is just as over looked as ben.
and one last thing... why all the buzz about donna lynne? i mean, she's great, she does a wonderful job, her accordian playing is steller, but, i mean honestly, does she deserve a supporting TONY nomination over joyce chittick in pajama game or any of the women in color purple? and while we're on that subject.. does lauren either? i mean, her performance is mediocre, i'm not sure where the hype comes from..
AND not that i'm saying benjamin deserves a tony nomination either.. i mean as an ENSEMBLE.. YES! they ALL deserve a special ensemble tony.. but given the nature of the roles the only ones that should even be up for it are patti, michael and monoel... any thoughts on the subject... should we maybe start a new thread?

Updated On: 2/25/06 at 03:15 AM

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 3:26am

Well, I didn't say that. I absolutely love Cariou's and Hearn's performances and I appreciate the nuance of them both, but I really have to disagree. I think Cerveris plays Sweeney's character arc a lot subtler; Hearn and Cariou are both brilliant actors, of course, but it's a testament to how carefully constructed Ceveris's performance is. From the moment he gets off the boat, yes, he's ready to snap already (as he should be); by the time "Epiphany" comes around it isn't a huge leap--it's a powerful leap. It's a naturalistic, predetermined-type leap, even, and all the more human for it. It's interesting that you don't see his love for Lucy because this, for me, was the first production where I actually said to myself, "There's the perfect thread of his motivation." Past Sweeneys have always conveyed that well, I've never doubted their love for Lucy (or Johanna), but I just love the way Cerveris's Sweeney carries himself as though he's so tormented he can barely speak--and for what other reason than Lucy?

I'll definitely agree about caring more about Johanna because of Johanna in this production, but I don't know, I tend to think of that as a strength in this particular Johanna rather than a flaw in this particular Sweeney. And again, interesting that you would say it's purely one-sided for Sweeney/Lovett because this was the sort of the only time I've felt it wasn't one-sided (Ah, I don't actually think any of the Sweeney/Lovett pairings are one-sided, they're a little more complex than that). I'm willing to concede, though, that it has nothing to do with Michael's performance and everything to do with the incidentally smokin' chemistry between he and Patti. :)

I think Michael Cerveris's performance may just be hard to warm up to because it's just so subtle. His Sweeney is not the "fun" guy Hearn's Sweeney was. He's capable of humor, of course, but his "A Little Priest" is drier and therefore creepier than past ones. And I think we're disagreeing on his "Johanna" because you don't see his love for Johanna previously, so there's nothing to convince you of in that song--you'd have to see that he spends most of the play quietly dying to see his daughter to appreciate the emptiness of how detached he's become from it/her.

I'm with you about knowing every word, though! I had to physically restrain myself from mouthing the words along in the theatre. And then when they were different, I felt awkward.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 2/25/06 at 4:00am

I don't know. A lot of Sweeney purists are with me on this one as far as Cerveris's performance goes. You probably see things in it I just don't.

You also have to have a strong presence with the beggar woman though... particularly her final moments. The poor beggar woman in this production, she really doesn't get many moments.