CHESS Lyrics- Page 2

[Craww]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:01am

I kind of feel like if you took out the bombastically cheesy numbers (like Arbiters Song, or One Night In Bangkok) you're opening everything up to a scrutiny that will make even the best numbers seem cheesy in their sudden self importance. If that makes sense to anyone but me. I certainly think stuff needs to be snipped, but not necessarily at the expense of all the schlock.

Heaven Help My Heart is my worst problem. It drags and seems out of character and is too close in tone to I Know Him So Well, which is vastly superior.

[wonderwaiter]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:19am

Oooer. I love Chess and I can't imagine any number being cut. I only long for the day where Tim Rice manages to keep all of the musical numbers intact while making the book work.

/Is not convinced that can happen.
//loves Heaven Help My Heart.
///would hate to see it go.
////fully understands that it's the most extractable number.

/////are slashies even acceptable on this site?

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:30am

I kind of feel like if you took out the bombastically cheesy numbers (like Arbiters Song, or One Night In Bangkok) you're opening everything up to a scrutiny that will make even the best numbers seem cheesy in their sudden self importance.

Actually, I definitely understand where you're coming from - I'm just not sure if I agree. I think Bangkok definitely needs to stay if only because of its former radio popularity, and I could deal with maybe one or two of the other "cheesier" numbers for comic relief, but I'd be worried that any more than that would just lead people to write it off the entire musical as 80s cheese. Also, I think you'd definitely have an extremely serious show (more serious than it already is!) without many of the fluffier numbers, but I'm not sure that automatically would lead to the other numbers sounding unintentionally self-important. A lot of that is dependent on other elements of the production, mainly the dialogue between songs. A happy medium is probably the best bet, and if not that, I'd like to see some of the weaker numbers replaced by dialogue with some comedic element to it.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:52am

I think that craww makes a really good point. After all, isn't that at least in some sense what went wrong with the Broadway production, aside from the atrocious book? It's so dark, and such high drama for a storyline that probably can't sustain that (though I know that the idea is to restructure the story). My favorite parts of Chess are the dramatic ones, of course, but the show has a LOT of anthems, and part of why it gets away with that without feeling too heavy or bloated is because there's so much comic relief in the form of the sillier songs. I'm not saying that it couldn't be done, just that it would be tough to make a show out of the "good" numbers that didn't feel melodramatic or oppressively heavy.

[scott68]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 6:09am

What I've always felt the show needed was a good de-synthesization. A little electronicness here and there to set the 80s vibe is fine, but I can't imagine it ever being successful today without a few more "real" instruments.

(Look, two non-words in two sentences!)

[Craww]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 8:54am

Actually, I definitely understand where you're coming from - I'm just not sure if I agree.

That's the best one can ask for in a message board discussion, I'm thinking. I agree a happy medium is definitely best, but everyone here probably has a different view of what that compromise would entail. I think few of us could think of anything that would result in the worst production of Chess, so we do have that going for us.

What I've always felt the show needed was a good de-synthesization.

Absolutely. The only thing I don't want to see go in an effort to make it more mature or modern or generally congruous is the Abba-ish bass lines. The bass makes me happy.

Posted: 2/13/07 at 9:45am

Siren, I just blame your unhealthy attachment to Embassy Lament and The Arbiter's Song (RaaaUUuUuuUUll). (I'm sorry, I'm kidding, mostly!)

It's so dark, and such high drama for a storyline that probably can't sustain that (though I know that the idea is to restructure the story).

But didn't they even have most of the "cheesier," fun songs in the Broadway production? I think the fault with the Broadway production lies with other problems...

I think few of us could think of anything that would result in the worst production of Chess

They've already done that! It's called the Broadway production and is totally unwatchable. Awful dialogue, menacing sets, people always singing in a seated position, too much emphasis on Florence's father. I do have to say that Judy Kuhn's breakdown at the end cracks me up every time, though. It's not even her fault that she was given nothing but a bunch of curses to yell for ten minutes. Updated On: 2/13/07 at 09:45 AM

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 10:35am

Oh, come on! You know you love, "From square one I'll be watching all 64!" Seriously, though, I'm not all that attached to The Arbiter in particular, I just wouldn't like seeing all of those sorts of songs cut.

Anyway, I guess I haven't listened to the Broadway version in a while, since I didn't remember that a few songs that I thought were cut are actually there, albeit not on the cast recording. There's still cheese in the form of The Arbiter (totally thought that was cut), Merchandisers, etc., but not Merano or Embassy Lament.

Posted: 2/13/07 at 10:40am

Okay, no, not all. But I still personally vote for most - or actually, just taking out the overt 80s influences might be the real answer.

I actually don't mind Merano. It's a good introduction to the show.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 10:43am

I like THE STORY OF CHESS beginning the show.

The bridge in Arbiter is so '80's. It's such a random song, but entertaining.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 10:57am

I'm torn between liking The Story of Chess as a prologue or epilogue. I feel like it's too sluggish a way to open the show, although there's something appealing about presenting that concept right off the bat. But I also like it placed after Endgame to give perspective to the whole affair.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 11:06am

I think if it is effectively staged, it could be a great, lavish opening that right off the bat shows the delicacy of the game.

I personally think the show needs to be cut and trimmed and follow one major focus. Excuse the pun, but chess, the game, is a pawn for the whole East/West relations matter. There is a love story built around it, but what should ultimately be staged is the way people use people and games to get what they want.

NOBODY'S SIDE and PITY THE CHILD both use that theme effectively, without compromising the emotions of the characters. This is what puts HEAVEN HELP MY HEART so out of place. Especially when the show is getting climactic. It means the show is about this love triangle. If that's the intention, then everything else is sorely out of place.

The MERCHANDISERS song is extraneous, but at least it has a purpose in one more way people exploit chess, this time for financial gain.

I also think MOUNTAIN DUET is a stronger song than HEAVEN HELP MY HEART, comes at a point where the other matters aren't heated yet, and sets up the Florence-Anatloy relationship. By the time HHMY, we get Florence is struggling.
Updated On: 2/13/07 at 11:06 AM

[sweeedboy]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 11:37am

I don't know if anyone saw or heard the Swedish version that was performed in Stockholm, but it was vastly different. While I thought the story was horridly rewritten (the whole show taking place in 4 days?!) some of the new music was spectacular. The entire show was "desythnthisized" and some new songs added. There was a flashback scene during 'I'd have thought you support" that showed the Florence as a girl and her father being taken away. The added music really made the piece more current, although some of it was superfluous.

Posted: 2/13/07 at 11:47am

Sweeed, I have this on DVD and some of it is truly, spectacularly staged (like the revolution snow number) but numbers like Nobody's Side which Florence is in a bar/club getting drunk and ends up with her shirt off is awful. I do agree that some of the new music - I don't understand Swedish, so I'm not sure about the lyrics- is beautiful; especially the song for Svetlana- I wish I knew what she was saying!

Posted: 2/13/07 at 12:31pm

Excuse the pun, but chess, the game, is a pawn for the whole East/West relations matter. There is a love story built around it, but what should ultimately be staged is the way people use people and games to get what they want.

I think that's true to some extent, but I think the individual characters' actions (manipulating others, making decisions based on national ties, and yes, even making choices involving love) are meant to represent the struggle of countries with East/West relations on a smaller, micro scale. I think these individuals' actions are just as important as the surrounding East/West relations theme that hangs over the show.

numbers like Nobody's Side which Florence is in a bar/club getting drunk and ends up with her shirt off is awful

God, I'm not sure I even WANT to see that. Completely out of character.

I don't understand Swedish, so I'm not sure about the lyrics- is beautiful; especially the song for Svetlana- I wish I knew what she was saying!

I'm assuming Svetlana was singing "Someone Else's Story" in Swedish, which was originally a song given to Florence in the original Broadway production and later given to Svetlana in later productions. Personally, I think the song works much better from Svetlana's perspective, and I think she has some of the most gorgeous music in the show. She's certainly given the best lyrics with which to work, even if her character is horribly underwritten. Updated On: 2/13/07 at 12:31 PM

[ashley0139]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 12:46pm

I'm not saying anything new here, but I agree the show has too many focuses. They can't decide whether they want the love story or the allegory of chess as manipulation or whatever at the center. I think the latter would have much more of an impact for an intelligent theatre audience.

I'm torn between liking The Story of Chess as a prologue or epilogue. I feel like it's too sluggish a way to open the show, although there's something appealing about presenting that concept right off the bat. But I also like it placed after Endgame to give perspective to the whole affair.

I really like the endgame after. I had the OBC first, with it at the beginning. When I heard the concert version with it at the end, I thought it worked much better. I don't know how to describe it, but I don't think you get the full effect of what it is saying at the beginning.

Posted: 2/13/07 at 12:48pm

Siamese- No, its not Someone Else's Story. Its a truly ravishing song. I'll find out the name in Swedish. Sweeed, can you help?

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 12:56pm

siamese - I totally agree that chess is a metaphor for all these things...especially on a micro scale.

The problem with the show is the romance subplot isn't that strong and often takes the show in a different direction. Plus, do we need another love triangle?

I think the show is interesting in how it moves all these different pieces around to represent the East/West relations aspect. The show just needs a stronger focus. As it stands, it has three or four different plots simultaneously - which is hard to work out dramatically. It needs to take one focus, and develop everything else has subplots (not extraneous plots).

[Pgenre]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 12:59pm

siamese wrote: "I'm assuming Svetlana was singing "Someone Else's Story" in Swedish, which was originally a song given to Florence in the original Broadway production and later given to Svetlana in later productions. Personally, I think the song works much better from Svetlana's perspective, and I think she has some of the most gorgeous music in the show. She's certainly given the best lyrics with which to work, even if her character is horribly underwritten. "

I'm sure Rice's wife at the time also felt "horribly underwritten" when it became clear that CHESS was written for his muse, and new paramour, Elaine Paige, completely unbeknownst to Mrs. Rice. I'm sure she knew EXACTLY what was going on after she saw the show!

A Good Nightmare Comes So Rarely,
P genre

P.S. I think a lot of what makes Svetlana's character so heartbreaking even though she is so underwritten is what I feel to be Rice infusing the lyrics of her songs with the pain he knew she'd feel once she found out about him and Paige. Art imitating life, or what have you.

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:01pm

Wait, what love triangle do you think needs to be thrown out? I never really interpreted Heaven Help My Heart about a love triangle so much as Florence lamenting that she knows she's involved with a man she shouldn't be. Then again, I honestly haven't listened to it in probably nine months. At any rate, the number needs to go.

I definitely agree that the show needs more of a focus, although I'd be sad to see it distilled down to East/West relations entirely. Not that you were arguing that - just saying.

I'm sure Rice's wife at the time also felt "horribly underwritten" when it became clear that CHESS was written for his muse, and new paramour, Elaine Paige, completely unbeknownst to Mrs. Rice. I'm sure she knew EXACTLY what was going on after she saw the show!

I'm not exactly sure what you were going for here, but if your point was that Svetlana was intentionally underwritten, I suppose I can understand (and probably agree with) that. However, I still think the show would benefit if she was given a bit more backstory.

As a sidenote, I think the fact that Chess reflected Rice's real-life situation is a main reason why Chess's lyrics are so brilliant. Updated On: 2/13/07 at 01:01 PM

[sweeedboy]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:02pm

The name of Svetlana's song is

"Han är en man, har är ett barn"

"he is that man, he is that child" (roughly)

It is quite a good song, very un 80's chess like. There was also a song for molokov that showed his tender side...uh...what was it called...ummm...i remember it being about his wife...i'll have to listen when i get home.

I definitely agree that some of the swedish version just sucked...Anatoly singing the one part of 'endgame' on a hotel bed while the maids puttered around him?! But, for me it was an insanely magical night of theater. The performances give on that stage were simply breathtaking.

Helen Sjoholm is absolutely breathtaking (Listen to Benny and Bjorn's other musical, Kristina Fran Duvemala for a peak into a 25 year old giving a POWER HOUSE performance)

Tommy Korberg's voice just gets fuller and more rich the more times he performs the role (He was the original Anatoly)

To see them together it was just insane. I thought one of the most beautiful moments was when they sang "you and I." "Drommer av glass" (dreams of glass) in the swedish." They were at a circus, which made no sense, but the new orchestrations combined with the trapeze(not corny, i promise) was absolutely STUNNING. I was in tears.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:09pm

siamese - I totally agree that chess is a metaphor for all these things...especially on a micro scale.

The problem with the show is the romance subplot isn't that strong and often takes the show in a different direction. Plus, do we need another love triangle?

I definitely agree that chess is used as a metaphor for the "games" of sorts between both the US and USSR and the individual characters, but love is a complication to what would normally be a straightforward game of strategy. It's the only thing that seems to throw any of the characters off their game, so-to-speak (although. Sometimes passion for the game wins out over the human aspect in the end (Anatoly wins the game), and sometimes the ending is more romantic (Anatoly sacrifices the game for Florence, even if it turns out to be a fruitless gesture). The love story needs to be more focused, I agree, but it's at the very heart of the show and it has to be there. I definitely see your point about songs like Nobody's Side and Mountain Duet being more thematically appropriate than (the awful) Heaven Help My Heart, though. That seems to be the one song most people agree should go.

I'm now doubting whether this made any sense whatsoever... Updated On: 2/13/07 at 01:09 PM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:27pm

Exactly. They need more duets, quartets, etc. of love songs, then all those power ballads. (When I say more, I mean that it would be more effective than just soliloquies over and overs.)

HEAVEN HELP MY HEART, besides being another song for a powerhouse Florence, works in pulling her out of the moment when Anatoly is arguing with the diplomats. But what is more important there? That Florence sings a weak song contemplating what we (the audience) already know? Or the events that ultimately lead up to Anatoly's defection and the powerful ANTHEM?

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:39pm

Right, I totally agree. Heaven Help My Heart never fails to seem out of place (wherever it's placed, really), and it doesn't tell us anything that we couldn't have surmised anyway about Florence's feelings. As ballads go, though, I would argue in favor of Someone Else's Story as sung by Svetlana, since there's more emotional push-and-pull and uncertainty of motives involved in that song, and it illustrates how she's being used as a pawn in the greater game.

[mustard]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 1:46pm

I've only got the London version as well. I love it to pieces, but as I result I don't know half the songs you are talking about!

Heh.