15 Year old Commits Suicude — Page 2

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#26

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 1:48am

Mira Sorvino has a line in ROMY AND MICHELE that fits here. To Janeane Garofalo she says "You know what, I bet in high school everybody made somebody's life hell". And it's true. AND NORMAL.

Updated On: 10/18/11 at 01:48 AM

#27

Not all bullying is the same. To a certain extent bullying is part of the socialization process for kids. Tougher kids take out their own insecurities on smaller kids. Or there's peer pressure to not like someone because they are "uncool".
I agree to some extent that it can't be stopped.

These types of scenarios are hurtful, but bullying as homophobia is a far more psychological type of torture. Many of these kids are already ashamed of who they are and have no one to confide in. To seek help would expose their sexuality to their parents, teachers, etc. I think many of them find this last result far more frightening than being "bullied". The isolation must be horrific.

I'm no child psychologist, so this of course is all my opinion based soley on what I've read over the past year or so. But I think that bullying due to sexual orienation is much more serious than bullying over some external characteristic. A disctionction needs to be made.

....but the world goes 'round

#28

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 2:03am

You're absolutely right but I'm talking about children growing up not knowing how to deal with teasing or bullying at all, be it about their weight, their clothes, their sexuality or the color of the leash they were walked to school wearing. There is bullying that crosses the line to dangerous and life threatening and that needs to be dealt with, most definitely.
But there's also the "you're a homo" or "you're a Fag" that kids need to learn to either fight back or live with. Of all my gay friends pretty much all of them at one time or another were picked on by someone in school. But they lived with it and went over to make fun of the kids playing D&D in the cafeteria.

#29

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 2:16am

The rate of teen suicides was higher in the 80s and 90s than it is now. So I guess it's those thin-skinned Gen-Xer pussies who weren't tough enough to handle the real world.

Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how

Updated On: 10/18/11 at 02:16 AM

#30

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:13pm

Bill Keller said that while the media wants to demonize anyone who dares call this CHOICE of sexual activity what God calls it in the Bible, a sin, it is those in the media who glamorize and promote this choice as normal and acceptable, along with gutless pastors too afraid to speak out against this sin, along with faux churches that glorify this deviant, unnatural, and unhealthy choice of sexual activity, who are most responsible for Hubley's death.

Keller stated, "Sadly we deal with the loved ones of those who commit suicide every day. Suicide is a desperate and selfish act that is ultimately the sole responsibility of the person who made the choice to end their life. Everyone who commits suicide has reasons that led them to make such a horrible decision. The fact is, suicide is exponentially higher amongst those who choose the homosexual lifestyle, and while those in the media want to blame people like myself who take a Biblical stand on this issue, the fact is, they are the ones most responsible!"
Blame Ellen, Rachel, Anderson & the media...

Pretty pretty please don't you ever ever feel like you're less than f**ckin' perfect!

Updated On: 10/18/11 at 12:13 PM

#31

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:15pm

I tend to think there's a difference between the kids will be kids stuff and daily, systematic abuse and torment of kids. But that said, I don't really understand why people continue to write these things off as just kids being kids.

All in all, I find this thread disheartening. I still don't understand why it seems like the onus to make it stop is on the kids being bullied. I don't see the humor is perpetuating a cycle where a kid bullied for one thing just moves on to bully another kid of something else. I think it's easy to say "that kid should have stood up for himself more" without examining the environment that allowed this sort of thing to go on in the first place. And I think it's easy to say, "Well, I survived my childhood fine, so why can't everyone else?"

And if what orangeskittles says is right (and I have no reason to believe it's not) then that pretty much renders all of what Cax said moot.

Or not. Maybe being an adult known for sending long-winded emails IS comparable to being a kid who is abused and bullied for being gay.

I'd be careful about making these work analogies, though, because they really don't follow. Unless you live in someplace like maybe Alabama, you're not going to have put up with a co-worker calling you names and threatening your life all day every day.

Updated On: 10/18/11 at 12:15 PM

#32

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:31pm

I don't blame kids for not being able to stand up and defend themselves as much as I blame their parents and the schools for not teaching them and allowing them to develop the skills necessary to be able to do that nowadays.

My Mother works for a school (K-12) and has been there for almost 30 years. Today, thinking about this thread I asked her if she thought bullying had gotten worse or if it was just the reaction to it that's changed. She was kind of taken aback and didn't know how to answer it. She called me back after talking to some people there and said they'd been talking about nothing else all morning. She said she doesn't think kids being bullied or picked on (BIG DIFFERENCE) has changed much or at all in the past 3 decades but the way that the kids handle it and the parents handle it is something that's completely changed. She said until a few years ago people never would have dreamed of calling to threaten legal action because Timmy was picked on for wearing his Lederhosen to school or because poor Kimmy didn't make the cheerleading squad. She just dealt with a mother who said she'd sue the school if her daughter wasn't allowed to be a cheerleader. Kids can't fight their own battles anymore or learn that if you get hurt, you can heal. And that goes back to even the simplest things I was talking about before like playing on the now padded "childproof" playground.

Now, what do we tell the kids who are mercilessly teased for acting effeminate in school? That once they get out of school it will get better? If Billy wants to dress in drag every day in school he's going to get made fun of. If Billy wants to dress in drag every day after he graduates from school, he's going to be made fun of. What do we say at that point? Once they are out of school and still being picked on by the same idiots who have and will always exist do we still threaten legal action on them? Or does Billy need to have learned the survival skills necessary to deal with situations like that? I think these are issues that are being neglected by everyone talking about this "bullying epidemic" that I don't think has changed at all since I was a kid, or you were a kid.

Updated On: 10/18/11 at 12:31 PM

#33

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:50pm

I really can't speak for all your anecdotal stories about your mother. I'm not in a school environment anymore, so I don't know what has changed and what hasn't. It does seem that people have gotten more litigious, but unless any of those cases you mention actually went to court and verdict was rendered, I don't think we can judge what effect that's having on society.

And I think it would be great if these kids who are being bullied and abused all had parents to teach them to fight back and whatnot, but I don't think that's always the case. The world may have changed, but that doesn't mean all parents are welcoming to the notion of their gay middle schoolers.

Speaking of leaps, I don't think all effeminate people (or more on the the nose, what others PERCEIVE to be effeminate) grow up to be cross dressers, for what its worth.

These comparisons to the "real world" just don't wash for me. The kids who grow up to be "picked on by the same idiots," have they grown up and all started working at the same company together or something? That's the only way the situation is going to carry on in the manner you're suggesting. The only somewhat similarly structured environment to school for adults is their workplace, and no, the vast majority of the kind of bullying these kids face at school will not happen in the workplace. And yeah, if you're an adult and someone is calling you a fag and threatening you all day at your job, you DO have legal recourse.

Updated On: 10/18/11 at 12:50 PM

#34

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:53pm

There's a huge difference between a mother who's suing to ensure her daughter is a cheerleader and a kid being bullied every day to distraction from the reason he's at school...to learn.

Bullying based on race or religion is not tolerated, neither should it be based on sexual orientation or identity.

And anyone who thinks your average middle schooler is strong enough and well adjusted enough to just get over it and fight back doesnt remember what it was like.

I dont consider myself to have been badly bullied, and I did survive, but not without a crapload of baggage that I've been dealing with ever since that my straight classmates dont.

"Carson has combined his passion for helping children with his love for one of Cincinnati's favorite past times - cornhole - to create a unique and exciting event perfect for a corporate outing, entertaining clients or family fun."

"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS

#35

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:56pm

Phyllis, I was talking more in the abstract of the way these kids are going to grow up not being able to handle any of these situations on their own. And I wasn't Saying that the parents should teach their kids to fight back, I'm saying theyre not giving them the opportunity to even learn HOW to do this.

As for threatening legal action goes, im sure hardly any of these cases actually go to court, it's the mere THREAT of that happening that scares parents and schools now. That's what I was saying there.

#36

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 12:58pm

Yeah, but like I said, your abstracts don't follow.

#37

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 1:04pm

Well to me and others I've spoken to, it does.

I don't think there's any real right answer here, though.

#38

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 1:17pm

What stuns me is a question asked in the beginning of the thread and an answer given. 'Is it morally wrong? I don't know.'

You don't know? You don't know whether it's morally wrong for one child to bully another for perceived sexual orientation? You really don't know the answer to that? You can't even hazard a guess?

I was picked on (then bullied) for a number of things when I was younger: being smart, being a good writer (I mean...really???) and, of course, for being perceived to be gay. Guess which one was the one that actually f*cked me up.

It's because there is a viscious solitude to growing up gay in America. Even if you're out...even if you're supported by your family. You're still different from the rest of your family. You're still alone.

So all of these 'abstracts' that we're discussing have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that gay kids are way more at risk for attempting suicide than straight kids. These 'abstracts' do not deal with the fact that, institutionally, the government actually penalizes people for being gay. Not just withholds rights, but actually, financially penalizes gay couples for forming the families they wish. The 'abstracts' do not deal with the fact that the other 'great' American institution, The Church (or at least, the majority of them) actively fights against the idea that we are even fully human. The 'abstracts' do not take into account the fact that, the more progress we make, the more vile and viscious the resistence to our full citizenship becomes.

Telling gay kids to grow a pair and deal? Come the F*CK on.

#39

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 1:25pm

Robbie, I completely agree with you. I'm speaking more to kids being picked on/bullied in general as a natural part of growing up. And what you're saying is exactly one of the points I was making in that we need to look to the parents, the state, our nations leaders to tell these kids that threatening and hurting gay kids is unacceptable. But he message they're getting is that it IS ok so can we really put all the blame on the kids?

#40

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 1:44pm

What I'm hearing from this thread and the "It Gets Better" detractors is....

Gay kids today are such sissys!

#41

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 2:20pm

I don't think that the suicide rate of gay teens may be rising. It's just that now every single person can have an audience, thanks to the internet. It's not a quiet thing anymore. With a blog post, or video upload, or even a Facebook status change, all of a sudden hundreds know that someone has killed, or is planning to kill, themselves. It's another sort of closet opening. With every person with a computer and an internet connection getting a voice, what can one do to be heard?

I don't think there is a clear-cut reason for this. I do agree that kids today are being raised in environments with the edges rounded off, which provides a nasty shock when they discover the world is mostly sharp. At the same time, the bullying of gay teens because of perceived or actual homosexuality is chronic and goes beyond inane name-calling. It's a symptom of a greater problem in re: homosexuality.

There's no clearly defined explanation and therefore no simple remedy.

I feel odd about this, maybe guilty, as I was fortunate (to say the least). I was never bullied about being gay (I was bullied for having a stutter and being smart and, when I was in first grade, for liking dinosaurs a lot). I went to an arts high school, and my coming out was anticlimactic to the point of being funny. My family fully supports me and have come to change views on gay marriage they held before I came out. Honestly, I feel more picked on by the gay community for not going to the gym than I ever did for being gay in school, but that's a whole different story.

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#42

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 2:27pm

Yeah Doodle...that's what I'm getting from this thread too. And it's really disheartening.
I've worked in either a high school or middle school for the past 10 years. I wouldn't even call what some of the gay students (or students who are perceived gay) bullying, it's more along the lines of psychological torture. Relentless and cruel.
And what makes it worse is often times the people who are charged with helping the student (parents, teachers, counselors, administrators) are homophobic themselves and end up blaming the victim. And a lot of the responses in this thread seem to be sharing the "blame the victim" mentality.

#43

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 2:48pm

You wanna talk bullying? I was in the marching band AND gay!

Seriously, the basic problem that sets these gay teens apart is that the bullying continues to be condoned or at best ignored because it's still okay to hate gay people. All you have to do is hold up your bible and it's not questioned.

That, however, is changing thank god, and people are questioning and responding and parents are expecting their kids to be protected as much as the next kid.

And these kids, parents and allys can get their ammo and support from orgs like "The Trevor Project" which the "It Gets Better" campaign was designed to highlight among others.

#44

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 2:53pm

You're exactly right, Erik. It's why I felt so completely alone growing up. I actually had a good amount of friends, had talent and was smart. I basically knew that I just had to make it through high school and my life would be different. And it was. Quickly. The fact that I went from school faggot pariah to big man on campus in the span of three months actually really F*CKed with my head as well. Going from Catholic School to a musical theatre department saved me...but, at the same time, the transition was so abrupt it took me YEARS to build up a normal level of self-esteem that would allow me to have any kind of relationship with another man.

The effects of bullying are wide-ranging. Killing yourself is the most extreme. The reason I actually really support the It Gets Better project is not just because it might, in some way, keep a kid of killing him or her self. It also gives hope to kids who won't harm themsleves, but have a very difficult time picturing a life that can be full of success and love and friendships. We pick on Glee all the time. But, if I was thirteen years old now and saw Blaine sing Teenage Dream to Kurt, my hope for what my future could be would be entirely different.

#45

15 Year old Commits Suicude

Posted: 10/18/11 at 3:04pm

Amen Sistah!

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