Abortion- Page 3

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 5:09pm

huh?!?

[DollyGirl]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 5:11pm

boom-chicka-boom

Updated On: 9/26/04 at 05:11 PM

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 5:45pm

I dont believe that a soul enters a child untill the 8th month or right before birth. I have read about 10 books from many religions and about after life that suggest the same thing. It's very interesting.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 5:59pm

I don't know what I would do if faced with this situation. I honestly don't. But I think the choice should be there for those who want to use it.

[Taryn]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 7:13pm

I don't think I could ever personally have an abortion, but I still want the option to be safely available for women. If it's not going to be available in a professional environment, it's just going to happen outside of it.

I AM very uncomfortable at the idea of a teenager going to a clinic and getting an abortion without her parents ever knowing. Sounds funny saying that, since I'm a teenager myself. The idea that a girl can't get an advil from the school nurse but can get an abortion without anybody knowing is rather strange to me.

[thirdrowcenter]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 9:25pm

NYUniq how can anyone know when the soul enters the body? Just a question?

[musicalfandukie]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:11am

I dont believe that a soul enters a child untill the 8th month or right before birth. I have read about 10 books from many religions and about after life that suggest the same thing. It's very interesting.

and something like this can be proved how? only god can give a real answer to that not books. Updated On: 9/27/04 at 12:11 AM

[Mattio98]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:13am

I just emailed God. As long as his spam blocker doesn't block me, I should have a response in 3-5 days.

[Chrysanthemum62001]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:14am

Damn, this is serious. Personally, I'm not for it. I mean, I don't know what I would do if I were faced with a tough decision like this. I hope I would go with my guns, but I've never been in a situation where I had to make this decision.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 10:57am

It can't be proved and the point is exactly what has been said above. Can you prove that god exists? Nope. Everyone believes in different things and has a different opinion. And to quote Mr Roxy "neither mean a thing in the great scheme of things".

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:20pm

"I dont believe that a soul enters a child untill the 8th month or right before birth."

And I bet you were born two months premature, NYU.

You know what, it's always the same crap when this subject comes up. People like those in this thread who mention "carelessness" and suggest that so-called careless people should be forced to have babies they don't want or can't resonably provide with a life as punishment for having sex. They have a totally different world view than I do.

Such arguments don't at all begin to take into account the very complex intersections of a whole lot of circumstances that lead to unwanted pregnancy: desire, biological urges, race, class, nationality, power and its imbalances, force, and on and on.

Not to mention the significant numbers of staunchly anti-abortion people I have encountered and read about who a) will do whatever they can to stop a woman from getting access to her legal right to an abortion and b) are in favor of the death penalty. A nurse friend of mine put it best when she said, "The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth." You know, like a certain president who sucks up to the anti-abortion lobby and not only signs the order for execution of a retarded man, but laughs about it? Like that.

Personally, I work (used to be on the clinic defense team of my local Planned Parenthood) and contribute cash to insure a woman's right to choose to do what she wants to do with her body. That's the primary thing I think about when I step into a voting booth and pull a lever. I think of all my women friends and relatives and I think of how this candidate will insure that these women have the options that are their right.

I simply couldn't ignore that and vote for somebody who is against freedom of choice and think, "well, they shouldn't legislate such things anyway." I can't just dismiss it. Because I'm a gay man and I can clearly see the links between the control of women's bodies and the desire for control of mine. (Ya know, sodomy laws were almost never used to prosecute non-vaginal sex loving heterosexuals.)

I'm glad people know for absolute certainty that they "could never have an abortion" themselves. I hope they never face a situation that would require them to consider one.

As for men having any say at all in the matter other than supporting women's freedom to choose, I think we really don't. There has never been a woman in charge of Operation Rescue, ever. The current guy, who replaced Randall Terry, is just another single-issue zealot determined to control what "the fairer sex" can do with their bodies, his recent profile in Rolling Stone was infuriating.

I have a very pro-choice priest friend who got caught in a discussion about the presidential elections with a seminarian. Although the seminarian is committed to social justice and works for the poor, he absolutely feels he cannot vote for Kerry because Kerry said he believes life begins at conception and he still has the audacity to be pro-choice. My priest friend said to the seminarian, "Oh face it, if men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

[Sunfish]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:28pm

Namo, you've said everything I've been trying to say. Bravo!!

[Bobby457]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:37pm

I personally believe that men have no business making decisions on this issue! PERIOD!!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:53pm

FindingNamo! How goes it, buddy!?

Interesting points by all.

I will say the "soul enters at 8 months" thing is a bunch of crap. A friend of mine had twins who were 10 weeks early (that's a little over seven months) do they not have souls? stupid.

Letting the abortion issue dictate how you vote for president is a little foolish (I wanted to think of a less harsh word but couldn't think of one)

Abortion is a third rail. Don't touch it. Roe v. Wade will (and should) stand forever.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:03pm

"And I bet you were born two months premature, NYU"


Everyone has the right to an opinion and I don't think you need to make yours into a personal attack Namo.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:06pm

It wasn't a personal attack. It was pointing out the foolishness of your hypothesis. It was no more personal than your anti-Puerto Rican screed.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:11pm

Read again I said:

"I dont believe that a soul enters a child untill the 8th month

OR RIGHT BEFORE BIRTH."

be mature and stick to the topic.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:24pm

Oh, well, that makes it much clearer then. The soul kicking in around the eight month of gestation OR right before birth. That makes so much more sense.

But really, you're skating on thin ice when making challenges to maturity. The point I made was to illustrate how silly your opinion about an official start time for the human soul is. Of COURSE people have a right to their opinions, for instance, that this planet is flat, that Wicked is a good musical, that Puerto Ricans going to a parade are a bunch of uncouth vulgarians, that the Earth is no more than 6000 years old.

But it doesn't make those opinions not silly, or dare I say it, stupid. What's immature is expecting people to just metaphorically nod and say "Oh, wow, the Earth is flat and that's your opinion and it is equally valid." What's immature is not being able to just respond to the criticism of the fact rather than to cry victim about it.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:30pm

namo, you're gigantic.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:35pm

Namo, Your post strikes me as silly or dare I say, stupid.
You compare my opinion to something like the world being round or flat. The difference? It is FACT the world is round and there is proof. Everyone knows that. Do you have proof of when the soul enters a body? I think not. No one does. If we did then it would be a fact, and we would not be discussing it. Therefore my opinion on the subject is just as valid as yours is.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 2:18pm

Oh, waah, oh woe is me, oh my, you dared to criticize my opinion, oh the pain.

See? No big deal. Yes it's true proof exists that the world is round, but the Catholic Church (big opponents of abortion, FYI) only admitted that "fact" as you call it, within the last decade and a half.

I said, and I'm still saying, that putting randoms dates of gestation on when a "soul" enters a body, is inane. Using it as a demarcation line before which women get to do what they want with their own bodies and after which they have no choice, is dangerous ... and that is the very slippery slope you create when you argue that.

The fact that the Pope recently condemned scientific research that is showing the chemical basis for many of the formerly-magical attributes generally considered to be "the soul," should tell you that we're right back in the flat earth discussions again. Them scientists, they must really be onto something.

Incidentally, you playing "I am rubber, you are glue" never loses its charm.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 2:25pm

WOW Namo and I actually agree on something! I predict the World will come to an end by the end of the day.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 2:28pm

FindinqNamo, I'll give you a hint

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 2:37pm

YAWNN